Alignment spacers for more NEGative camber...

[Kern Dog]

Have you seen these?

http://www.manciniracing.com/maracaspkit.html

These fit between the lower ball joint and the steering knuckle/spindle. They are supposed to make a 2 degree difference in camber.
I have wondered about what you can achieve by using these along with Moog K 7103 offset UCA bushings.
In theory, I'd think these allow more negative camber yet allow you to get more caster than before.
Who has tried this?

 

[451Mopar]

Never used the washers. Just have a street car and can get the alignment I need with the stock upper control arms and adjustable strut rods for more caster.

 

[Kern Dog]

Thanks.
I am talking about mods that take the alignment past what the factory called for when new with skinny tires, small torsion bars and sometimes NO sway bar at either end.

 

[andyf]

Have you seen these?

http://www.manciniracing.com/maracaspkit.html

These fit between the lower ball joint and the steering knuckle/spindle. They are supposed to make a 2 degree difference in camber.
I have wondered about what you can achieve by using these along with Moog K 7103 offset UCA bushings.
In theory, I'd think these allow more negative camber yet allow you to get more caster than before.
Who has tried this?

That is exactly what they do. We designed those a few years back as an easy way for Tim to get more camber in his Valiant. Helped make the car stick like glue.

 

[Cranky]

Funny how it's hard to get plenty of camber and caster in some cars. Had enough dialed into my 66 Belvedere that you could easily see it by eye and it was lowered a good 2" or so from stock ride height. I think it's harder to get it with A bodies than it is with B cars though....

 

[Kern Dog]

Andy, I'm sure you know the resistance there is to convince traditional Mopar guys that our cars can turn corners as well as haul *** in a straight line.

 

[Cranky]

Andy, I'm sure you know the resistance there is to convince traditional Mopar guys that our cars can turn corners as well as haul *** in a straight line.

Took home a trophy in 71 with a 66 Belvedere running in C stock auto cross back in 71....no sway bars. It was a mor door too. Had decent shocks on it was about it. It didn't handle all that great but it was pretty quick in the straights. Yeah, they can handle pretty decent even using stock suspension parts. 20 bucks for a few washers sounds a bit steep though.

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

...... 20 bucks for a few washers sounds a bit steep though.

Hell Cranky, that's only $5 bucks a washer. That's pretty cheap considering its from Mancini. Wait till they add the shipping on top of that!

 

[Cranky]

Maybe I should start making them!? Need to run my engine lathe from time to time anyways and who knows...may just get filthy rich! What would a mailer cost....a buck or two maybe? Yeah, Mancini's prices are up there.

 

[Mopars & Missiles]

IMO, Year One is the worst for shipping cost followed by Mancini's. I've gotten to where I try to make all my parts purchases from Mega Parts. They are much more reasonable on both the parts and shipping.

Yeah, you could probably make them and sell them for HALF the cost and still make a nice profit. Problem is, they are most likely NOT a high volume item.

 

[Cranky]

IMO, Year One is the worst for shipping cost followed by Mancini's. I've gotten to where I try to make all my parts purchases from Mega Parts. They are much more reasonable on both the parts and shipping.

Yeah, you could probably make them and sell them for HALF the cost and still make a nice profit. Problem is, they are most likely NOT a high volume item.

Oh for sure they are not high volume lol. That was why the filthy rich comment was made.

 

[andyf]

They are a very low volume item. I make 50 at a time and it usually takes a couple of years to sell them. But they don't take up much space on the shelf, and they don't go bad, so I don't really care.

 

[Cranky]

They are a very low volume item. I make 50 at a time and it usually takes a couple of years to sell them. But they don't take up much space on the shelf, and they don't go bad, so I don't really care.

Yup...they don't take up any room. What do you make them out of? I have some 316 stainless laying around and and it won't rust. And I still have parts on the shelf when I made something for someone and made a few extra figuring someone else might need it or even me. Some of it has been moved on or used by myself but there are still a few things laying around from 20 years ago lol

 

[ckessel]

What you need to realize is that its not just what they are made from but the amount of time it took to figure out the thickness of them to get the 2* and also have them hug the shank of the bolt. If you spend a lot of time and effort figuring something out you need to be able to get the benefits from your efforts unless you planned on doing it as a freebie to begin with. You could possibly just use flat washers there but if you are after a specific target and have to keep trying other washers, what is your time worth and could your trial and error efforts be better spent elsewhere?

 

[Cranky]

What you need to realize is that its not just what they are made from but the amount of time it took to figure out the thickness of them to get the 2* and also have them hug the shank of the bolt. If you spend a lot of time and effort figuring something out you need to be able to get the benefits from your efforts unless you planned on doing it as a freebie to begin with. You could possibly just use flat washers there but if you are after a specific target and have to keep trying other washers, what is your time worth and could your trial and error efforts be better spent elsewhere?

I agree but if you know how to figure out the math, it's not hard to figure how thick they need to be....or you might could attach a level on the end of the spindle to take a before and after reading. And any machinist that's worth their salt can make the washers fit the shoulders of the bolt with the proper clearance. Heck, a first year machinist apprentice should be able to do that.....

 

[chtampa]

Should we be that quick to discount the amount of work and effort that someone has put into something that they have created?

 

[Cranky]

Should we be that quick to discount the amount of work and effort that someone has put into something that they have created?

Wasn't discounting anything. Was just saying it's not difficult to do 'anything' if you know what you are doing. A machinist and someone who understands front end geometry AND has the know how AND the tooling can do this job without difficulty. Also, I like using materials that do not rust so I would most likely use something like 316 stainless steel even though 1018 would probably work just fine too. I simply asked what they were made of. Is that such a bad thing? I'll crawl back under my rock now.

 

[chtampa]

The "Heck, a first year machinist apprentice should be able to do that", was just a little bit over the top. Of my rock at least. I appreciate anyone that tries to help the hobby. It looks like it hasn't made him enough money to afford an avatar yet! If he does show up with a green dollar sign avatar, we can all dog him.

By the way, the worst shipping is going between Canada and the US. Both time and money.

 

[andyf]

Off the shelf washers are too thin and the OD is too big to fit which is why I designed some custom washers. The problem with custom washers is that they are expensive in low volumes. But that is just the way it goes. If you want something that fits a specific application then it is probably going to be custom and if it is for a Mopar it will be low volume so it ends up being expensive.
I've solved the low volume/expensive problem a few times with things like throttle brackets and coil brackets, but sometimes it kills the part. Billet timing covers for SB engines ended up being too expensive to make but billet timing covers for BB engines sell fairly well. Some of the new EFI parts I'm making look like they'll sell okay but the billet valve covers I designed recently ended up too expensive for the Mopar crowd. If something doesn't sell I just move on to the next idea. I've designed more than 500 products for Mopars and I'm still designing new parts every day.

 

[Cranky]

The "Heck, a first year machinist apprentice should be able to do that", was just a little bit over the top. Of my rock at least. I appreciate anyone that tries to help the hobby. It looks like it hasn't made him enough money to afford an avatar yet! If he does show up with a green dollar sign avatar, we can all dog him.

I take it back...I take it back!! 5 bucks a washer is dirt cheap!! Why don't you buy some??