Anyone autocross their B-Bodies?

[derrickmanx1]

I was just wondering if anyone autocrossed their B-Bodies. I'm wanting to Autocross and Drag race my 68 GTX. I know their is a big difference between the two suspensions, but I want to make my car more modern and fun to drive. I enjoy driving these old cars and am addicted to working on and upgrading anything I drive. So i've planned on hotchkis upper control arms and torsion bars,front and rear sway bars, subframe connectors, cal-trac bars and new bushings all around. I thought about maybe doing a rack and pinion as well. How does that sound to start? I open to suggestions if anyone has any.

 

[Grabinov911]

I spoke to Dick at Firm Feel and went entirely with their suspension and steering parts. The car feels like a giant slot car to me. NO body roll. It's a lot of fun. I have never driven a car with the RMS Alterkation front and rear system, but they are supposed to be spectacular. Only downside is you're going to spend $8 to $10 gran to do that. I have a few threads here with info on my suspension.

 

[derrickmanx1]

I'm liking the way the RMS Alterkation front and rear system looks. I don't like the whole thought of buying all new front suspension and brake parts then trying to make them work when I can change it to a better more efficient design.

 

[68 Sport Satellite]

what car do you have and what size tires are you running front and rear?

I spoke to Dick at Firm Feel and went entirely with their suspension and steering parts. The car feels like a giant slot car to me. NO body roll. It's a lot of fun. I have never driven a car with the RMS Alterkation front and rear system, but they are supposed to be spectacular. Only downside is you're going to spend $8 to $10 gran to do that. I have a few threads here with info on my suspension.

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a guy over on pro-touring.com autocrosses his '68 roadrunner. I saw him run the course at the good-guys event here in northern California a few summers ago. He has the Hotchkis total vehicle system which maintains torsion bars and stock K-member and runs 18" diameter tires on all 4 corners.

I have a '68 Satellite with a mix of parts from Hotchkis, Firm Feel, and Global West. Pretty much like you're planning. It's a night and day difference from where it started, but still not exactly the way I want it. What I am still playing with is adding adjustable strut rods to replace the stockers, up-sizing my torsion bars from .092" to 1.000" and evaluating my tires. I'm running mickey Thompson RWL 215/70/15 Front and 275/60/15 rear. I like the look of these tires a lot, but if I want better handling I need to get away from the raised white letter tires and get something with more grip.

I recommend if you're thinking about rack and pinion steering, you also look at the Borgeson steering gear setup with the Bergman Auto Craft coupler adapter (Bergman also supplies the hoses and fittings and you can buy the Borgeson unit from them too). Don't buy the u-joint type from Borgeson and cut your steering shaft down- instead get the stock coupler with built in adapter - Borgeson created it last year just for this box to work with our cars. It's a huge space savings compared to the remanufactured Firm Feel boxes (which I have and like), but it costs almost double (although maybe not as much as new rack and pinion.) Another member here 65RoadRacer is running this setup. His thread is worth a read and he's a super nice guy on this site.
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/showthread.php?60720-Installing-new-Borgeson-Steering-Gear-conversion-this-afternoon

 

[derrickmanx1]

what car do you have and what size tires are you running front and rear?



- - - Updated - - -I know chevy gu

a guy over on pro-touring.com autocrosses his '68 roadrunner. I saw him run the course at the good-guys event here in northern California a few summers ago. He has the Hotchkis total vehicle system which maintains torsion bars and stock K-member and runs 18" diameter tires on all 4 corners.

I have a '68 Satellite with a mix of parts from Hotchkis, Firm Feel, and Global West. Pretty much like you're planning. It's a night and day difference from where it started, but still not exactly the way I want it. What I am still playing with is adding adjustable strut rods to replace the stockers, up-sizing my torsion bars from .092" to 1.000" and evaluating my tires. I'm running mickey Thompson RWL 215/70/15 Front and 275/60/15 rear. I like the look of these tires a lot, but if I want better handling I need to get away from the raised white letter tires and get something with more grip.

I recommend if you're thinking about rack and pinion steering, you also look at the Borgeson steering gear setup with the Bergman Auto Craft coupler adapter (Bergman also supplies the hoses and fittings and you can buy the Borgeson unit from them too). Don't buy the u-joint type from Borgeson and cut your steering shaft down- instead get the stock coupler with built in adapter - Borgeson created it last year just for this box to work with our cars. It's a huge space savings compared to the remanufactured Firm Feel boxes (which I have and like), but it costs almost double (although maybe not as much as new rack and pinion.) Another member here 65RoadRacer is running this setup. His thread is worth a read and he's a super nice guy on this site.
http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopar...geson-Steering-Gear-conversion-this-afternoon

Thanks for the info. I have 68 GTX 440/727 for now. Looking at changing the trans to a built 4l80e (I know chevy parts but they are strong enough to take the power and work great) and a stroker 512 w/efi.

 

[Grabinov911]

Hey 68 if that question was for me (What car and tires), It's a 1970RR with 2" dropped spindles (from Firm Feel but made by Magnum Force) and Firm Feel Torsion bars, springs with lowered front mounts and stiff shackles and Firm Feel sway bars. I am running 235/60/15 on the front on a 15" by 8" wheel, which fit easily even with the dropped spindles and Wilwoods. I am running 275/60/15 on the back. With 15" x 10" Budnick wheels with a 5" backspace I have plenty of room (more than an inch anyway) between the wheel and the leaf spring but rub just a little on the outside - the tire hits the inside of the rear fender over big bumps.

I'd REALLY like to go to 18" wheels all around but the COST! UGH! I think I can get a 275/45/18 or something like that on all 4 corners, which would be CRAZY sticky. It's really no more tire than I have now in the back, but way more in the front. And you DO NOT want the front of one of these cars sliding in a corner on a track unless you want a wild ride. What usually happens shortly after the front starts to slide is that you decide you want to try to save it (rather than just hitting the brakes and sliding straight off the track). Save it means Stomp on it, which, with 600 ft lbs of torque, is great if you have enough room to Stay on it and on asphalt, otherwise the car goes from understeer to oversteer, hooks up and then spins back the other way and viola, you get to go off the track backwards instead.

Not that I have ever had this happen to me of course. It happened to "a friend of mine"...

 

[derrickmanx1]

Also I running 245/30/20's right now.

 

[derrickmanx1]

Is anyone running the rms alterkation kit that could comment on it? It looks like a good kit considering I need to upgrade the 4 wheel drums on my GTX as well.

 

[derrickmanx1]

Well I got my engine sorted out today 620-650hp 440. Now its time to sort the suspension. Probably do the f&r sway bars until I can afford a k-member setup.

 

[ZombiePopper]

Have you considered welding up your stock K?

 

[Budnicks]

I guess it kind of come down to budget... what you want & like, or even who you trust, for me anyway... Mancini Racing/sells QA1 {formerly Capps Automotive} now offers a tubular K-member for $593.95 {Capps stuff was $1300 years ago for a tubular K Member}, sway bar attachments, tow hook/tie down loops, stock suspension & steering mounts, haven't seen one in person yet, probably ordering one soon... I've done all the tubular stuff before upper & lower control arms, dynamic adj. strut rods & big sway bars front 1-3/8" & 1" rear on a couple of 68 RR's, with stock leaf rear suspension w-sliders, CalTracs, worked out well... I live in the Sierras I like my cars to handle & perform, not really into the Autocross deal, but dabbled a little a decade or so ago, it was fun... Night & day differences between stock & the tubular stuff, especially in adjustability & tune-ability... Seen RMS {Lynx rear suspension} & XV Mostorsports stuff too, never used them thou, seen a few reviews of them that were favorable... I have used the Magnum Force Racing & the old Capps Automotive [COLOR="#0000CD[I]"]{Now owned by QA1}[/I][/COLOR] stuff on several cars, been very happy, there are some rears suspension stuff too, from Ride Tech that worked well too... The newer SPC upper control arms look promising too, adjust on the car, ya gotta like that... look into the bump steer correction too... good luck, not much more I can add...

 

[biginch=bigfun]

I watched a cool vid on hotrod.com , I think where hotchkis used a 1970 satellite 4 door. Search it out, it put big ideas in my head! lol

 

[Budnicks]

Hotchkis run a 68 RR with relatively good success... among others, hell they were racing them at Riverside back in the day too...LOL...

 

[Dennis H]

Fly to Vegas for MATS in April. Hothckis will have the course set up. Awesome to watch big B's fly around.

 

[derrickmanx1]

Have you considered welding up your stock K?

No I haven't. Should I? Sounds like more weight to me.

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Hotchkis run a 68 RR with relatively good success... among others, hell they were racing them at Riverside back in the day too...LOL...

Thanks for all of the info bundnicks. I've looked at the hotchkis systems but just want to cut some wt. At the same time it should help ET's at the drags and overall handling. I like their products and believe they work great. Just want to lose the wt. Looking closely at the RMS alterkation system.

 

[ZombiePopper]

No I haven't. Should I? Sounds like more weight to me.

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Lol
im not saying to randomly run 2-3 spools worth of welding wire beads all over your stock k member haphazardly.
The structural welds aren't going to add any significant weight to your vehicle that couldn't easily be compensated for by...oh, I don't know...running 1 alum wheel instead of a steel wheel, OR taking the spare outta the trunk, OR running an alum intake instead of the OEM cast unit, OR running headers instead of OEM ex manifolds, OR running 1 alum head instead of a stock head, OR...You get the picture I think.
If you've got the cash to drop on an aftermarket K set-up, then disregard my post and please ignore me,
if, however, it's not in your budget, then welding up your K will make a world of difference.
Do a quick search if you're interested, if not, no-harm-no-foul, I was just trying to provide you with another option that many are not aware of...

 

[derrickmanx1]

Lol
im not saying to randomly run 2-3 spools worth of welding wire beads all over your stock k member haphazardly.
The structural welds aren't going to add any significant weight to your vehicle that couldn't easily be compensated for by...oh, I don't know...running 1 alum wheel instead of a steel wheel, OR taking the spare outta the trunk, OR running an alum intake instead of the OEM cast unit, OR running headers instead of OEM ex manifolds, OR running 1 alum head instead of a stock head, OR...You get the picture I think.
If you've got the cash to drop on an aftermarket K set-up, then disregard my post and please ignore me,
if, however, it's not in your budget, then welding up your K will make a world of difference.
Do a quick search if you're interested, if not, no-harm-no-foul, I was just trying to provide you with another option that many are not aware of...

Sorry I was thinking I would need to add some steel to it LOL. There was no harm and I thank you for the input. P.S. I wish there was a budget. I'm flying by the seat of my pants.

 

[Budnicks]

I just ordered Sunday my tubular K-Member from QA1 $579 #52315 from Summit Racing, stock location engine mounting, sway bar mounts, tow rings, stock location steering mounts, {I have a $1000 Rack & Pinion conversion from Unisteer, from back in 2007, which I don't really recommend, I like it now, but need to build a custom set of headers anyway, the only headers that will fit off the shelf, with that rack, are the TTI-383188c} K-Member it will be drop shipped from the mfgr., @ no shipping charges... I have all my front suspension stuff "finally", probably will install in the late spring or early summer, money's been tight with not working much lately & running ol'Pops all over the place for testing & health issues since Nov 2013... I know have their adj. Upper & tubular Lower Control Arms, the Dynamic adj. strut rod... QA1 they bought out Capps Automotive who I had used several times before, hope all goes well... with my both sway bars, 4 shocks, r & p, UCA's & LCA's, strut rods, brakes, I have about $3000 total in my suspension now... Iknow that it's not a ton of weight saving but it will handle way better, with the battery in the pass. side trunk, lighter aluminum heads, stronger stiffer, way more adj. front suspension, last time I did this it was a difference of 110#'s total just for the suspension, not sure the difference in weight from the original Power steering box/pieces & the Power rack/pieces, the heads are about 70#'s, IIRC the rack was slightly lighter... not including the alum rad & shroud, alum w/pump housing, aluminum intake, elec. fans & w/pump, alum pulleys/serpentine belts, instead on off the heave steel pulleys & fan ect., probably another 40#'s maybe, off the nose of the car making the front to rear weight bias, much, much better, lower center of gravity, then I also have an A12 lift off fiberglass hood, fiberglass bumpers & aluminum mounts instead of the heavy steel OEM stuff for front & rear 70#'s Probably/Maybe {Unlimited Fiberglass Bumpers I wouldn't recommend either, have to do allot to clean them up, lousy quality control now}... 70# + 70# + 110#+ 40# + 40# {difference between Pro-Car buckets instead of the 130# bench seat} = total 360#'s maybe lighter & I will have lots of room for different Oil pan & Headers kind of {the damn R&P will limit that some too}

 

[derrickmanx1]

I just ordered Sunday my tubular K-Member from QA1 $579 #52315 from Summit Racing, stock location engine mounting, sway bar mounts, tow rings, stock location steering mounts, {I have a $1000 Rack & Pinion conversion from Unisteer, from back in 2007, which I don't really recommend, I like it now, but need to build a custom set of headers anyway, the only headers that will fit off the shelf, with that rack, are the TTI-383188c} K-Member it will be drop shipped from the mfgr., @ no shipping charges... I have all my front suspension stuff "finally", probably will install in the late spring or early summer, money's been tight with not working much lately & running ol'Pops all over the place for testing & health issues since Nov 2013... I know have their adj. Upper & tubular Lower Control Arms, the Dynamic adj. strut rod... QA1 they bought out Capps Automotive who I had used several times before, hope all goes well... with my both sway bars, 4 shocks, r & p, UCA's & LCA's, strut rods, brakes, I have about $3000 total in my suspension now... Iknow that it's not a ton of weight saving but it will handle way better, with the battery in the pass. side trunk, lighter aluminum heads, stronger stiffer, way more adj. front suspension, last time I did this it was a difference of 110#'s total just for the suspension, not sure the difference in weight from the original Power steering box/pieces & the Power rack/pieces, the heads are about 70#'s, IIRC the rack was slightly lighter... not including the alum rad & shroud, alum w/pump housing, aluminum intake, elec. fans & w/pump, alum pulleys/serpentine belts, instead on off the heave steel pulleys & fan ect., probably another 40#'s maybe, off the nose of the car making the front to rear weight bias, much, much better, lower center of gravity, then I also have an A12 lift off fiberglass hood, fiberglass bumpers & aluminum mounts instead of the heavy steel OEM stuff for front & rear 70#'s Probably/Maybe {Unlimited Fiberglass Bumpers I wouldn't recommend either, have to do allot to clean them up, lousy quality control now}... 70# + 70# + 110#+ 40# + 40# {difference between Pro-Car buckets instead of the 130# bench seat} = total 360#'s maybe lighter & I will have lots of room for different Oil pan & Headers kind of {the damn R&P will limit that some too}

Man sounds like your getting it all sorted out. I am going with procar seats up front and stock seats in the rear. I think i'm going to try out the alterkation kit from RMS with their wilwood kit. It makes sense to me because I need the front disk brakes, sway bar, and a steering gear with most of the suspension anyway. The wt saved is a plus. I haven't put this thing on a scale but I will before Too long. I'm going to make this GTX as good and daily driver friendly as I can while making it handle and fast as I can. I'd like to be able to spank some supercars if possible.

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I guess I need to start a build thread.

 

[HYRDGOON]

Please do start a build thread! I'd love to get my car to the point of autocrossing it this past year snowballed quick for me into getting all my electrical and mechanical sorted out but next (once everything is paid for from this year) will be suspension upgrades.

Would love to see what you end up going with and forgive my ignorance but can someone explain more the "welding of the K Member" This is all greek to me so what actually gets welded and what does it accomplish?