Anyone Watch Sons of Guns?

[Bruzilla]

I used to watch this show when if first came out, but I started noticing that shop owner was doing more and more illegal stuff, and I had to wonder when the BATFE was going to take notice. At the beginning they were always doing work for cops, defense contractors, military, etc, and that's all 100% legal. They also took pains to tell private individuals that they couldn't make class III weapons for them, which also follows the law.

But then they did an episode where the shop owner built himself an M-2 BMG because he had always wanted one for himself. As anyone with an FFL knows, aside from C&R licenses you can't use your license to buy guns for yourself, and a Class 2 holder can't make guns for himself, especially Class III firearms that are illegal to manufacture or import for individuals. Manufacturers can build them for sale demo purposes, and Class III retailers can use them as sales samples, but admitting on TV you're building an M-2 for yourself? How did that get past the BATFE?

I quit watching the show for a long time, and just watched a newer episode yesterday, and they had a doctor come in and ask them to make two machine guns and mount them to a snowmobile. This would be 100% legal if they bought two pre-1985 manufactured machine guns and mounted them, but instead they built two parts guns. Parts guns are where a dealer, usually overseas, takes firearms that are illegal to import into the USA, tears them apart, removes the receiver or side plate, plus any selective-fire components, and ships what's left to the US as parts. Then anyone can buy them without an FFL, and some companies buy them and rebuild them using legal US-made parts, but when you're taking Class III firearms they must be remade with semi-auto only parts. Yet there was this guy building two new Class III machine guns for this doctor and at the end of the show he's told they'll get him started on the paperwork to get him the guns.

I hadn't heard that FOPA had been rescinded, and I'm wondering if anyone knows what changes have been made to the law that allows them to manufacture Class III weapons for transfer to individuals? Last I heard that was a major felony.

 

[Cranky]

From what I've heard, the shop has been in trouble with the Fed lately....and yeah, I watched the snow mobile show. I don't know much about the gun laws but even I was thinking they were not following the laws like they are supposed to be.

 

[Budnicks]

I watch the show, probably seen almost ever episode, some is just movie prop crap, Tanks & cannons, 3 guns twirling, automatic shotguns etc., I watch because, I like watching sh-t getting shot to hell & blown up, I can't do that stuff with-out getting arrested... It's a TV show, I don't worry or even care about legal crap, it's just entertainment, he may have been relicensed or something, he could use what ever he makes as a demo too, no matter what blabber he says on the show... Your putting way too thought into this stuff, about legal ramification, who cares, just enjoy it for what it is, guns, tanks, cannons, quads, jeeps, drones, sand-mobiles all armed to the hilt etc., blowing the crap out of junk, in Louisiana... The laws there are much different laws regarding Class II & III weapons in both Texas & Louisiana, than any other states, like Florida & especially Calif., then I have with my old FFL requirments... Let alone driving around in a tank or assault vehicle, maybe he's working under someone else's licenses... Many of these customers, maybe even a couple of the employees/sub-contractors, suppliers are appr. licensed private merc.'s & govt. contractor is my suspicions... We don't know what he's licensed for... Just Enjoy

 

[Bruzilla]

That's a negative ghostrider. Class II and Class III laws are Federal, not state, and are the same anywhere you go in the country.

As to this just being a show, that's correct. But it's a show about a Class II shop that manufactures Class III weapons, not about a speed shop like the shows a lot of us watch. Whole different level of accountability there. I have a close friend who got hit with a felony and $30,000 in fines because he bought three AR-15 parts rifles at a gun show, and when he went to sell them they were found to have M-16 trigger group parts in them. It's an easy mistake to make. The parts look nearly the same, and will function in either rifle but won't make an AR-15 selective-fire by themselves, but under FOPA it is a felony to have any selective-fire parts in a semi-auto firearm.

And also under FOPA, the manufacture or importation of selective-fire firearms for private individuals is prohibited. The only Class III weapons that can be legally transferred are those made before May 1985, which the parts guns those guys made obviously weren't, which is why I'm wondering why BATFE isn't parked on this guy's doorstep.

 

[Xp29h]

I used to watch it, but unfortunately I realized quickly that it was one of those drama riddled reality shows. Done!

 

[Budnicks]

That's a negative ghostrider. Class II and Class III laws are Federal, not state, and are the same anywhere you go in the country.

As to this just being a show, that's correct. But it's a show about a Class II shop that manufactures Class III weapons, not about a speed shop like the shows a lot of us watch. Whole different level of accountability there. I have a close friend who got hit with a felony and $30,000 in fines because he bought three AR-15 parts rifles at a gun show, and when he went to sell them they were found to have M-16 trigger group parts in them. It's an easy mistake to make. The parts look nearly the same, and will function in either rifle but won't make an AR-15 selective-fire by themselves, but under FOPA it is a felony to have any selective-fire parts in a semi-auto firearm.

And also under FOPA, the manufacture or importation of selective-fire firearms for private individuals is prohibited. The only Class III weapons that can be legally transferred are those made before May 1985, which the parts guns those guys made obviously weren't, which is why I'm wondering why BATFE isn't parked on this guy's doorstep.

I was just reading up on were & what there are states you can't get or own class 2 & class 3, not sure about the Only federal jurisdiction BS, I don't really give a rats a$$ either, since I don't & won't own any of them either... From what I read, Tenn., La., Texas are very open, with their class 2-3 policies & do license certain qualified companies/private parties, even for personal use, there's places that rent them out even, albeit on their own range... Also purchases, with proper back ground checked & vetted people, to manufacture & import/export them, occupational use/vetting & taxed also, even sell them... But 8 states & a couple of cities/districts like Ca., Co., Conn., Ha., Maryland, NJ, NY, Washington DC & the city of Chicago Il. are the only one listed, the FFL ATF/Treasury Dept., OHLS outlawed places... Like I said you may actually know more about it, you may be the smartest guy in the room, you might be 100% right too & I'm not going to get into a long pissing contest with you either, no response is even necessary, ultimately it means nothing to me, I'm not buying or building them either & never ever plan to... Just commenting on a stupid thread about a stupid show... But from several places I checked, albeit the internet {you can't & shouldn't ever trust everything you read on the internet either}, I'm not going to say it's fact or not... & even the Federal Bureau BATF's own site listed it that way... It's very hard to find/decipher, probably because, I would think, that they don't want it well known either... You have a nice day now, I read some of the reg.'s here too http://www.westernfirearms.com/wfc?set=02 a manufacturer is allot different than a private party/owner/seller

I'm not 100% sure what Will's {Sons of Guns Character/Owner of Red Jacket FA} FFA licensing is either... & I don't claim to be a know it all about it or the laws either... Just an avid gun owner/sportsman, that likes to watch a show about people blowing/shooting the crap out of scripted & staged stuff... I don't want & have no need for automatic select fire weaponry... I do kind of wonder how Hollyweird, gets away with using Automatic/select fire weaponry, especially here in Calif., even if just with just blanks or props, but it's probably the same way, the show Sons Of Guns does....

 

[Bruzilla]

Allow me to clear things up for you a bit. When you're talking about Federal Firearms Licenses (FFLs), keyword being Federal, there are four classes of them. Collector & Relic (C&R) was set up to allow folks who want to buy collector guns made at least 50 years before the date of purchase, or that are rare, unique, or bizarre (and certified to be so) through the mail. Class I FFLs are for the transfer of non-Class III firearms to people who are legally able to buy them. Class II are for firearms manufacturers. Class III are for dealers who can transfer Class III firearms to people who are eligible to buy them.

A Class III dealer is free to allow people to fire their guns, and anyone who purchases a Class III weapon is free to allow people to fire them as long as there are no state or local laws that prohibit it. What C&R, Class I, and Class III FFLs regulate is the transferring of firearms from one owner to another. They do not determine who they can be transferred to or what people can do with them.

For Class III weapons made before May 1986, these guns can be transferred by a Class III dealer provided the buyer pays a $200 transfer fee, completes the transfer forms, provides a set of fingerprints and obtains a signed authorization from a local law enforcement official who's conducted a background check. If you live some place where Class III weapons are illegal, you won't be able to get the form signed. Firearms made after May 1986 can only be transferred to military, government, or police agencies or they can be bought by Class III dealers for use as demo/sales samples.

So in the case of Red Jacket, the owner could build an M-2 BMG for use as a sales sample, but not as a personal gun, and the owner made it pretty clear he had always wanted one for himself and that's what he was building that one for, which should have earned him a visit from the BATFE. As for the snowmobile, those were parts guns built way after 1986 so it is illegal to transfer them to anyone buy police, military, or government customers.

So