Cam Shaft and Heads package

[AlienMopar69]

Ok, I am currently running a bone stock 440 in my 1969 Satellite. I have been through around in my head about getting a new cam shaft/lifters and heads.

Was looking for some advice on what combination would be good for street/strip usage.

I was thinking the 509 cam with the 906 heads, is this a good combination?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

brian:eusa_think:

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Ok, I am currently running a bone stock 440 in my 1969 Satellite. I have been through around in my head about getting a new cam shaft/lifters and heads.

Was looking for some advice on what combination would be good for street/strip usage.

I was thinking the 509 cam with the 906 heads, is this a good combination?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

brian:eusa_think:

The factory offerings on all the late 60's (1968+) nearly flowed identical numbers, and offered very little difference in overall chamber size. The 452's would be your best choice in a factory casting IMO, but 906s are a great choice as well. I would save up my nickels and dimes and go for a set of Aluminum heads from Edelbrock or 440 Source (if you believe in Chinese built parts). All your stock valvetrain will work with the Aluminum heads, but it's recommended you go to adjustable rocker arms; even for a hyd. flat tappet camshaft. Camshaft choice would definitely be a huge factor on what exactly you plan to do with the car. I had a 509/Iron headed combo and it was a decent street combination that probably made around 425-450HP. In a light car, this is plenty enough oomph to get you ahead of the local mustangs and camaro's if your car is set up correctly. I run the Comp Cam Extreme Energy High Lift series (285/297 .545 lift) and it is a Fantastic sounding camshaft (sounds like a solid lifter cam) and has an extremely fast ramp rate and idles and drives like a normal car in traffic with the four speed with a EST 575HP. The 509 on the other hand, burnt out my first clutch within a few weeks (factory replacement with 425-450HP!) and was a bit rough with the centerforce DFX series I installed which is rated to 650HP. If you have an Automatic, a 3,500RPM-4,000RPM Stall is what I would recommend for the .509 and a 3,000RPM-3,500RPM stall for a milder cam such as the one I am running (which actually has more duration, and much more lift). If you go to my restoration link, I have the sounds of both camshafts in the car. Good luck!

 

[Photon440]

As for the 509 cam, let us know first what other mods have been done (carburation, headers, porting...) and do you have a 4-speed, or hi-stall torque converter, and what rear end ratio?


-=Photon440=-

 

[AlienMopar69]

For other mods I have put the edelbrock 750CFM on with the performer series intake. I am running headers, hooker pro com headers at this time. I am running 3.92 gears in the rear end as of now, but I want to upgrade to an 8 3/4 or dana in the future. So I want to build the engine strong enough to handle more upgrades but want it streetable. I also know that when you start messing around that at one point in time or another you lose something in either the streetable aspect.

 

[AlienMopar69]

For other mods I have put the edelbrock 750CFM on with the performer series intake. I am running headers, hooker pro com headers at this time. I am running 3.92 gears in the rear end as of now, but I want to upgrade to an 8 3/4 or dana in the future. So I want to build the engine strong enough to handle more upgrades but want it streetable. I also know that when you start messing around that at one point in time or another you lose something in either the streetable aspect.

As for porting, nothing of the sort has been done to the engine, it is a completely stock engine minus what I have already told you. It does have an aluminum rad, with dual 11" elec fans.

I think I have told you everything on the modifications at this time.

 

[67 B-body]

That MP 292 .509 camshaft loves compression!!
I'm not sure you'll be satisfied with the results if you just put that in an otherwise stock engine.
A set of aftermarket heads as already suggested will get you some better compression (if you choose wisely), and much needed flow characteristics. You should also keep in mind the specific RPM range your stock rotating assy can handle. Choosing a camshaft that works best at 6500 rpm does you no good in an engine that can safely handle 5,500 rpm. I dont mean to say that your engine can only handle that RPM,,, but I know nothing else about it's condition, year, mileage, etc.
I have the MP 590 camshaft, but the rest of the engine is designed to take full advantage of it's abilities. Balanced rotating assy, H-Beam rods, Steel crankshaft, Main bearing stud girdle, Victor heads, Victor intake, Billet roller rocker assy's.... etc., etc.
Not saying you can't do it,,,, (I did when I was 19yrs old) in my 69 Road Runner....
I had a VERY low mileage (rebuilt) 440 from a 70 RR, Ported cast iron heads, and dual 4bbl carbs. It went from a car that had trouble keeping the tires from spinning, to a car that had more top end, and WAY less bottom end.... I put a 10" converter in it, and the car could once again spin the tires till the cows came home,,, but it still took MUCH more pedal to do it!
Just take your time,,,, pick your parts wisely,,, then you'll have fun!!!!
BTW,,, my larger camshaft has less lopey idle sound and LOTS more throttle responce than the 509 camshaft EVER had! Probably because all the other parts work with it...
BTW,,, my RR sounded exactly like the red RR in the video using the 509 camshaft!!! Brings back memories......

 

[Sweet5ltr]

To be more basic;
If you want a car to sound like a "muscle car" should sound, go the MP509 route; but plan the rest of the engine accordingly. (Performer RPM intake, 750DP Carb, Headers, Port work on the Heads, etc.) "true" 10:1CR with Iron Heads, 11:1CR with Aluminum Heads. Transmission should either be a four speed with a good clutch, or an automatic with a 3,500-4,000 Stall. Gearing should be NO LESS than a 3.91 with 26" tall tires, 4.10 gears with a 28" tall tire, 4.30s with a 30" tall tire.

If you want a car to perform very well in factory trim with factory compression ratios and gearing, go the 280/.474 route or the 284/.484 at the maximum. The stock cylinder heads die off after some would say, 5,000+ RPM. I would keep a factory 440 under 5,500RPM so their is no need to have a camshaft that pulls beyond the territory of a Hyd. Flat Tappet camshaft (6,250+). Topping the heads off with a performance dual plane is not going to change the fact that the cylinder heads flow terrible in today's performance era and you cannot harness that flow effectively. Testing shows that bigger valves have a performance DECREASE on factory castings, so their is not a real effective way to change this other than good port work with may or may not be worth the effort. Placing too large of a carburetor will decrease air speed (or velocity) and not give you the throttle response you're looking for (their for, requiring a larger stall speed to get the response back on the lower end). Read the Direct Connection and Mopar Engine Performance manuals. YOU CAN NOT GO WRONG WITH FACTORY EQUIPMENT, and if you aren't looking for a world beater; I would settle for a docile camshaft and simple bolt on's, and put the rest of my energy into the chassis to effectively get that 'stump pulling' torque and wagon train' horsepower to the ground.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

BTW,,, my RR sounded exactly like the red RR in the video using the 509 camshaft!!! Brings back memories......

Thanks! the Dynomax Race Bullets really quiet the car down, quite a bit (even with full 3" tubing). You can see in the video of how it actually is shaking parts off the table, to give an accurate description of the 'tone' this camshaft has.

New cam is actually more aggressive sounding (sounds identical to solid lifter), you just can't tell in the video.

 

[67 B-body]

Thanks! the Dynomax Race Bullets really quiet the car down, quite a bit (even with full 3" tubing). You can see in the video of how it actually is shaking parts off the table, to give an accurate description of the 'tone' this camshaft has.

New cam is actually more aggressive sounding (sounds identical to solid lifter), you just can't tell in the video.

All of this has me wanting to run out and get a recording / video of my build idling!!! He,,He.....
Listening to yours allows me to stay inside out of all the G.D. HEAT!!!!!! Will we ever get a break to play with our cars?????:icon_spiderman:

 

[IQ52]

To be more basic;
If you want a car to sound like a "muscle car" should sound, go the MP509 route; but plan the rest of the engine accordingly. (Performer RPM intake, 750DP Carb, Headers, Port work on the Heads, etc.) "true" 10:1CR with Iron Heads, 11:1CR with Aluminum Heads. Transmission should either be a four speed with a good clutch, or an automatic with a 3,500-4,000 Stall. Gearing should be NO LESS than a 3.91 with 26" tall tires, 4.10 gears with a 28" tall tire, 4.30s with a 30" tall tire.

If you want a car to perform very well in factory trim with factory compression ratios and gearing, go the 280/.474 route or the 284/.484 at the maximum. The stock cylinder heads die off after some would say, 5,000+ RPM. I would keep a factory 440 under 5,500RPM so their is no need to have a camshaft that pulls beyond the territory of a Hyd. Flat Tappet camshaft (6,250+). Topping the heads off with a performance dual plane is not going to change the fact that the cylinder heads flow terrible in today's performance era and you cannot harness that flow effectively. Testing shows that bigger valves have a performance DECREASE on factory castings, so their is not a real effective way to change this other than good port work with may or may not be worth the effort. Placing too large of a carburetor will decrease air speed (or velocity) and not give you the throttle response you're looking for (their for, requiring a larger stall speed to get the response back on the lower end). Read the Direct Connection and Mopar Engine Performance manuals. YOU CAN NOT GO WRONG WITH FACTORY EQUIPMENT, and if you aren't looking for a world beater; I would settle for a docile camshaft and simple bolt on's, and put the rest of my energy into the chassis to effectively get that 'stump pulling' torque and wagon train' horsepower to the ground.

I'd be interested to see those tests that show a performance decrease with larger valves in factory castings.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

I'd be interested to see those tests that show a performance decrease with larger valves in factory castings.

Read the Mopar Performance Engine Manual. Under their cylinder head section. I know that port velocity is also a major contributing factor, which is something that can make-or-break a performance build on the street. The ports on the factory castings are pathetic, especially when you put them up against the aftermarket offerings! What is the point of pulling in much more air, if you are unable to have it exit effectively?

 

[Sweet5ltr]

All of this has me wanting to run out and get a recording / video of my build idling!!! He,,He.....
Listening to yours allows me to stay inside out of all the G.D. HEAT!!!!!! Will we ever get a break to play with our cars?????:icon_spiderman:

I would love to have a break with mine! The military has me up in Georgia at the moment, under the baking sun (97-105* heat) every day; I am very happy I drove my Z06 Corvette which has fantastic A/C.

 

[451Mopar]

Ok, I am currently running a bone stock 440 in my 1969 Satellite. I have been through around in my head about getting a new cam shaft/lifters and heads.

Was looking for some advice on what combination would be good for street/strip usage.

I was thinking the 509 cam with the 906 heads, is this a good combination?

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

brian:eusa_think:

Your best power gains will come with better flowing heads. The stock 906 and 452 heads can be rebuilt with larger valves, ported and install hardened seats and new valve guides, but the cost is the same or more than the aftermarket aluminum heads that would flow as well as most ported iron heads, and have more potential when ported.
If you want out of the box performance, the Edelbrock RPM head is a good choice, but does not look stock, and the angled spark plugs can cause fitment problems with some headers and exhaust manifolds. The 440 Source heads look more like a stock head, and have straight sparkplug location so they will work with manifolds, but out of the box they flow slightly less than the Edelbrock heads.
The Mopar 292, 0.509" cam was designed for bracket racing so it has more overlap and a rough idle compared to most of the newer cams from Hughes Engines, Launiti Voodoo series, and Comp cams XE series of camshafts.

The size of the cam will depend on what you expect for the engines torque curve. The torque curve depends on the vehicles application, gear ratio, tire size, vehicle weight, converter stall speed, intake and exhaust systems used.

With that information, you can choose the cam, and then optimize the compression ratio (if you plan to rebuild the engine) for the fuel you plan to use.