Car wont start

[Dominic Torreto]

To the mods I realise with all of the problem steps completed on the last post I thought it would be appropriate to make a new post. Alrighty guys I did get this car to crank from the ignition key. I did wire brush all ground points and cleaned them. Problem is still the same problem it wont turn over and juice is not coming out the ignition coil. What are other ideas on why it wont turnover? Like I said guys your advise has gotten me a long ways and I appreciate it by far. Thank you

 

[Hemi Rebel]

What do you mean by juice isnt coming out of the coil? No spark? Trying to read back over the many threads and dont see anywhere about what type of ignition system you have. Points or electronic ignition? I saw a schematic for electronic ignition in another thread, but it was for a dual prong ballast resistor, which even if the ignition system is electronic im sure it does not have that ballast resistor and that may just add to the confusion.
Do you have an ecu mounted either on the fender or firewall with rubber 5 prong plug that had a screw in the middle of the plug? If so, thats electronic ignition. Once that is determined, we can go from there

 

[Dominic Torreto]

.

It has points sir and yes no spark.

 

[ArtH]

To the mods I realise with all of the problem steps completed on the last post I thought it would be appropriate to make a new post. Alrighty guys I did get this car to crank from the ignition key. I did wire brush all ground points and cleaned them. Problem is still the same problem it wont turn over and juice is not coming out the ignition coil. What are other ideas on why it wont turnover? Like I said guys your advise has gotten me a long ways and I appreciate it by far. Thank you

Dom, when you say turn over, do you mean the starter is not spinning the engine (that's what I call turning over) or do you mean it's not firing (that's what I call spark igniting the air/gas mixture in the cylinder). Is there a voltage reading at the positive (+) side of the coil when the key is in the "on" or "run" position? If yes, then either your points are bad or the coil is bad. If no, you need to see if there is any voltage at the ballast resistor on the fire wall. Check both sides of the resistor with the switch on. You should get a reading on both sides if only on one side, the resistor is bad, get a new one. If it is hot on both sides, then trace the wire from the resistor to the positive side of the coil and see if there are any breaks etc. The wire providing power to the coil is attached to the positive side. The wire from the points goes to the negative side make sure they aren't backwards.

 

[67 B-body]

Im betting there is no +12v at the (+) terminal of the coil.... If I read your post correctly, you say that it wont turn over.....
Just get out a volt meter "if its analog set it to 24v scale", and measure for 12 volts to the coil while cranking and something around 9 volts with it just in the run position. If you have nothing, pull the (+) terminal wire off and check it to ground while disconnected. If you have 0 volts or something realy low, your coil probably wont generate a spark.... If it is 0 volts check at the ballast resister for 12 volts on one side and something around 9 volts on the other with the key in the run position.
Let us know what you measured in the tests and we'll go from there......

 

[67 B-body]

Dom, when you say turn over, do you mean the starter is not spinning the engine (that's what I call turning over) or do you mean it's not firing (that's what I call spark igniting the air/gas mixture in the cylinder). Is there a voltage reading at the positive (+) side of the coil when the key is in the "on" or "run" position? If yes, then either your points are bad or the coil is bad. If no, you need to see if there is any voltage at the ballast resistor on the fire wall. Check both sides of the resistor with the switch on. You should get a reading on both sides if only on one side, the resistor is bad, get a new one. If it is hot on both sides, then trace the wire from the resistor to the positive side of the coil and see if there are any breaks etc. The wire providing power to the coil is attached to the positive side. The wire from the points goes to the negative side make sure they aren't backwards.

we were both typing at the same time... LOL!!!!:sideways tongue:

 

[ArtH]

Yeah, great minds and all. One thing occurs to me, if the points are not opening at all or when they should there will be no power coming out of the coil to the secondary system, i.e. spark plug wires. He could crank until the cows come home it will not fire up the engine. Checking the gap on the points when they are on one of the eight high spots (cam lobes under the distributor cap) which I think need to be about .017" (seventeen thousandths of an inch).

 

[440roadrunner]

A breaker points system should be easy to diagnose, even with a test lamp

First you must realize that on many Mopars, the "ignition run" (IGN1) wire goes DEAD during cranking, so the "ignition bypass" (IGN2) MUST be working to supply power

So get yourself some "stuff" which any Mopar mechanic should have:

A 12V test lamp

A digital multimeter. You don't need to spend over 25 bucks

Get some Radio Shack test leads, a couple of bags of the large, and maybe a bag of the med. and a package of just alligator clips

Make up at least one nice heavy long test clip wire, no14 wire, long enough to go from the coil+ to the battery (starter relay) or the alternator output stud. Personally, I like about 4 ft long, for other purposes.

1 Do you have primary power?

Turn key to run, measure voltage, or "look" with your 12V lamp at the ballast resistor. "Bump" the engine with the lamp/ meter clipped to the coil NEG terminal until you get a lamp. Should have exactly "same as battey" voltage. Now if you crank engine, you should get flashing on/ off

NOTE Cranking the engine using the key is DIFFERENT than jumpering the start relay. When using the key, the IGN2 "bypass" circuit is active. This should give you hot voltage at the coil +

2 When cranking by bypassing the start relay, the bypass circuit does NOT work, and the coil gets reduced voltage THROUGH the ballast resistor PLUS the battery is "dragged" down by the starter, so even less voltage goes to the coil

OK, so if you get a light flash when cranking the engine, at coil neg, this means the points are opening and closing and getting at least some voltage on the primary

3 IF at this point you still have no spark from the coil, REPLACE the condenser.

4 If that does not help, take your big clip lead, and hook from coil+ to the battery, and retest. If not spark, replace the coil. Don't leave the clip lead hooked up longer that to run the test.

 

[Dominic Torreto]

It does turnover but no spark is what I meant. I am sorry for the misleading part of the post. I am new to everything only 20.

 

[ArtH]

It does turnover but no spark is what I meant. I am sorry for the misleading part of the post. I am new to everything only 20.

I am not being condescending here but I think you need to get a friend or better yet an experienced friend to help you sort this out. While the advice given is good, I suspect some of it is all new to you and you're getting confused.

It's true that a points ignition system is probably the easiest to diagnose and repair but if you have never done this before, it's kind of difficult. I never fully understood a lot of it until I went to some night classes at the local technical college and took several courses on auto repairs including ignition systems and engine rebuilding. I still had some VA benefits left and that was some of the best money I've ever spent.

 

[Pops1967GTX]

Dom...TRy these video has some good information for you to start with...Also go to their web site for some other tips........


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IJKCOlTywg&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oitv2djx_Wg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYfkGx2vIrY&feature=relmfu

 

[Dominic Torreto]

Alrighty guys there is power going to the positive and negative side of the coil. On top of that I did change the ballast resistor and still no power comes out of the ignition coil to the distributor wire that connects to distributor. Besides the possibility of the ignition coil being bad. What else could be the problem? Or is it almost gauranteed at this point it is the ignition coil? Pops I am getting ready to watch those videos.

 

[440roadrunner]

If the points are open, or NOT closing and opening, there will be power on the negative side. Please re--read my post. You should be able to clip your meter or test lamp to the neg. side of the coil and crank the engine, and the test lamp should flash on/ off

IF so, the points are opening closing If not, then check the points, and check the primary WIRE going from the points to the distributor

IF you DO get a light flash on/ off as cranking, then it's either a bad CONDENSER or bad COIL.

This is ASSUMING your primary power VOLTAGE is OK.

 

[ArtH]

Alrighty guys there is power going to the positive and negative side of the coil. On top of that I did change the ballast resistor and Besides the possibility of the ignition coil being bad. What else could be the problem? Or is it almost gauranteed at this point it is the ignition coil?

Don't throw parts at a problem to try to solve it. Determine what the problem is. You haven't determined if your points are open or closed, in other words opening and closing correctly. Your problem could be as simple as adjusting them.

If you had correct voltage readings at both the positive and negative side of the coil, there is no reason to replace the ballast resistor.

Check the points like 440 posted. If they are working correctly THEN I would suspect the coil.

 

[440roadrunner]

Thank you, Art.

The order you should use (especially for expense, unless you want a spare coil anyway)

1 Determine if you have power

2 Determine if the points are opening/ closing

3 If the points are working, and IF you have power, THEN replace the CONDENSER

4 If the condenser does not fix the problem, THEN replace the coil

 

[Dominic Torreto]

Update!!

Okay, I have a 75 440 Truck engine inside my 70 charger. Problem is the whole time I thought this engine had a condenser and now I cannot even find out what the points look like on the distributor cap.

 

[Pops1967GTX]

Okay, I have a 75 440 Truck engine inside my 70 charger. Problem is the whole time I thought this engine had a condenser and now I cannot even find out what the points look like on the distributor cap.

Dom... take a Photo of the distributor & system to get more info...

 

[Bruzilla]

I just a crank/no-start condition that was the same as yours. Power getting to the coil, but no ignition. I had a new Accel Super Coil on there so I "knew" the coil couldn't be the problem. Turned out the coil had gone bad. I guess there's a first time for everything as this is the first coil I've ever had fail on me.

 

[440roadrunner]

Okay, I have a 75 440 Truck engine inside my 70 charger. Problem is the whole time I thought this engine had a condenser and now I cannot even find out what the points look like on the distributor cap.

Dom... take a Photo of the distributor & system to get more info...

Good grief

You may very well have a later model breakerless distributor. THAT is a horse of a different color!!

 

[moparstuart]

Thats why i stated way earlier in the other thread we need picture of your engine , the wiring , the distibutor and the fire wall . Oh and the middle video above shows you what points look like right on the front of it .