Caster, Camber and alignment options.

[Kern Dog]

I'm sorting out what I want to do with my 1970 Charger project. Some of what I'll be doing may be applied to my red car later. I like to look at this ratty Charger as a development vehicle even though the red car is a pretty well sorted car.
In terms of wheel alignment, I know that static negative camber helps in cornering because it allows the front outside tire to better remain perpendicular when the body leans while in a turn.
To gain negative camber, both alignment cams have to be turned in toward the engine.
AR Engineering sells these spacers that allow a 2 degree change in negative camber:

https://www.manciniracing.com/maracaspkit.html

They simply tilt the knuckle/spindle away at the bottom.
MY question is this:
Would this allow more negative camber AND caster since it would allow the front alignment cam to be adjusted all the way toward the fender?
I have no engine in this project car so I may be experimenting with a few things. Camber is easily visible, as is toe in or toe out. Caster is a bit harder to see except at full left or right.
These A R spacers look to be about 1/8" thick. Thinner washers would surely provide less negative camber.
I may experiment again with the Moog offset upper control arm bushings as well but these spacers are a cheap and interesting idea.
Anyone here had any experience with these?

 

[493 Mike]

I imagine those washers are just hardened washers. You can probably buy them at a Fastenal store.
Mike

 

[69L48Z27]

$21 plus shipping for 4 washers?!?

 

[66 Sat]

Holy crap, what a simple way to increase the negative camber! I've got an issue where I have neutral to slight positive camber and I was looking at adjustable UCA's to fix it, which I wasn't a fan of due to cost and complexity (more things to come loose).
I think this will work a treat, although I will need 2 longer bolts as the hole for the cotter pin will be blocked on the rear bolts.
Thanks for posting this - just made my day!

 

[Kern Dog]

Again, someone decides to click the RED X but doesn't have the guts to explain why.

 

[Kern Dog]

Holy crap, what a simple way to increase the negative camber! I've got an issue where I have neutral to slight positive camber and I was looking at adjustable UCA's to fix it, which I wasn't a fan of due to cost and complexity (more things to come loose).
I think this will work a treat, although I will need 2 longer bolts as the hole for the cotter pin will be blocked on the rear bolts.
Thanks for posting this - just made my day!

It isn't a real simple thing to install. The brakes have to be off with disc cars but it is cheap. You could experiment with thinner washers if the 2 degree difference is too much. I run 3/4 of a degree of negative camber with my red car.
This angle sort of shows it.

It looks a bit more dramatic here:

I agree that there are many ways to achieve better alignment and new upper control arms are a proven way. The offset bushings by Moog K7103 are as well.

 

[coronet68mx]

Again, someone decides to click the RED X but doesn't have the guts to explain why.

Maybe the dreaded FFS

 

[Kern Dog]

 

[66 Sat]

I would prefer to install these than muck around with the UCAs. I put the disc brakes on myself and it was straightforward, so removing the calipers and discs to gain access to the bolts wouldn't be a problem. The alignment shouldn't alter either. I probably wouldn't buy the kit though - I'll try the local nut and bolt place first and there's a guy close by who has a small engineering workshop with a CNC machine, lathes etc that has done a number of small jobs for me for reasonable prices. He'd probably make spacers in a range of thicknesses for $20 so I could play around until the camber was right.

 

[Kern Dog]

My bonehead math tells me that if the spacers are 1/8" and the gain is 2 degrees, a 1/16" spacer would be half as much. I'd need to know the exact thickness though.
If nothing else, if one had access to an alignment rack and had some spare time, they could experiment with a variety of thicknesses and learn a few things.

 

[70chall440]

I think it is a cost effect method of achieving a positive result and far cheaper than new UCAs.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Here's a high quality version... Parallel ground & hardened....

https://www.amazon.com/ARP-200-8535-2008535-10-Pack-Diameter/dp/B000CFQ4SK

But I agree 2 degrees is more than I'd want.... 1 degree would probably be perfect...

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Here's another option, cheaper, thinner & lots of them...

https://www.mcmaster.com/97063a112

 

[myk r sanchez]

Where are you wanting to set the camber at? I had mine set at -1* and my tires wore down on the inside in only a few thousand miles...

 

[66 Sat]

Where are you wanting to set the camber at? I had mine set at -1* and my tires wore down on the inside in only a few thousand miles...

It was more likely your alignment causing the wear. 1 degree camber isn't that much.

 

[YY1]

Longer (1/2" fine thread grade 8) bolts are available over the counter at most ACE hardware stores.
They may be in a different section than "regular" bolts though.

Just as an aside, there is enough adjustment on my 73 to create negative camber wear issues on the tires.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Longer (1/2" fine thread grade 8) bolts are available over the counter at most ACE hardware stores.
They may be in a different section than "regular" bolts though.

Just as an aside, there is enough adjustment on my 73 to create negative camber wear issues on the tires.

Yes, there is, but not if your trading camber for caster.... Max out caster & you lose camber range... Add camber with these shims & you can have all the caster you car is capable of while keeping proper camber...

 

[bearman]

Kd, great post will be playing with your idea when I put the front end back together. Looks like a way to get the tires to last longer. Thanks again

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Kd, great post will be playing with your idea when I put the front end back together. Looks like a way to get the tires to last longer. Thanks again

Tires last to long already... I'll trade some wear for improved handling.... Most of these cars don't rack up enough miles to wear out tires during the time frame tires are considered safe....

The point is to gain caster and still have enough camber... The ideal camber to minimize tire wear is zero, but zero doesn't do well when cornering as the tire tends to roll under... Negative camber when cornering causes the outside tire to load the tread more evenly but loads the inside tread more when going straight....

 

[493 Mike]

Longer (1/2" fine thread grade 8) bolts are available over the counter at most ACE hardware stores.
They may be in a different section than "regular" bolts though.

Just as an aside, there is enough adjustment on my 73 to create negative camber wear issues on the tires.

Be careful with hardware store "hardware"! Most or all is made "you know where" and much has been proven to not meet grade specifications.
Mike