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Cheby Bashing

^^^ LMAO !!! But you choose the 396 to compare a 440 to ? Why not the 427 or 455 or 454? Why the 396 ? Shouldnt that be compared to the 383 instead of the 440?

You guys slay me ... yes the 426 and 440 six pack were fearsom but comparing them to a 396 ? Thats scared little boy stuff right there..... ;)

Here are some facts for ya

http://www.musclecarclub.com/musclecars/general/musclecars-50fast.shtml

427 reigns supreme in the 1/4 mile

Sorry, but that list is a fraud. You have the Cobra, which only 350 427's were EVER made, the ZL1, of which only 69 were ever made, you have the L88, which only 216 were made TOTAL between 67, 68, and 69. Yet the list is missing most of the early B Body max wedges and hemi cars.

You have to give it to the 66 L72 Vette, it was a fast car and they actually sold over 5000 of em, but get rid of those ultra rare cars no one has ever seen and you see Mopar rise to the top, even without the max wedges and early hemis.
 
:lurk: :steering: :yaayy: Join the Bash..........

shelby bash.jpg
 
No one brought up the 68 Cobra Jet Mustang? Did we all forget that several of these cars were entered in the 68 Winternationals and put every one on the trailer in SS eliminator that year?

You see, it sort of goes like this (condensed version). Ford gets their *** handed to them by early Max Wedge cars and they get mad. They get so mad that they put a 427 in a 64 Fairlane and call it a Thunderbolt then put the hurt on MoPar. Then MoPar gets REALLY mad and changes the location of the spark plugs and puts everyone on the trailer for many years. Shortly after that massacre started, Ford not only changes the location of their spark plugs, but puts the cams up top too! And the war goes on..... Then in 1970 an LS6 Chevelle convertible took out I think a hemi Cuda and became world champion.

After the Vega and Pinto introduction in 71 it became impossible for MoPar to compete using the heavier Dusters and such so they were in trouble for a while - possibly until the Arrow and Colt came out. Yes there were AMC's, Yaks and Chevys doing battle with everyone else in the mid/early 60's but Ford was HUGE into all kinds of racing for a long time and were a force to be reckoned with. If it wasn't for Ford there would be no 426 hemi.

Another thing to point out is the gen II hemi is only 426 inches. This is big for the time of it's unveiling in 64, but as other engines progressed in the displacement department, the hemi never followed. By 67 it should have been a 440 hemi.
 
No one brought up the 68 Cobra Jet Mustang? Did we all forget that several of these cars were entered in the 68 Winternationals and put every one on the trailer in SS eliminator that year?

You see, it sort of goes like this (condensed version). Ford gets their *** handed to them by early Max Wedge cars and they get mad. They get so mad that they put a 427 in a 64 Fairlane and call it a Thunderbolt then put the hurt on MoPar. Then MoPar gets REALLY mad and changes the location of the spark plugs and puts everyone on the trailer for many years. Shortly after that massacre started, Ford not only changes the location of their spark plugs, but puts the cams up top too! And the war goes on..... Then in 1970 an LS6 Chevelle convertible took out I think a hemi Cuda and became world champion.

After the Vega and Pinto introduction in 71 it became impossible for MoPar to compete using the heavier Dusters and such so they were in trouble for a while - possibly until the Arrow and Colt came out. Yes there were AMC's, Yaks and Chevys doing battle with everyone else in the mid/early 60's but Ford was HUGE into all kinds of racing for a long time and were a force to be reckoned with. If it wasn't for Ford there would be no 426 hemi.

Another thing to point out is the gen II hemi is only 426 inches. This is big for the time of it's unveiling in 64, but as other engines progressed in the displacement department, the hemi never followed. By 67 it should have been a 440 hemi.

No complaints with any of your observations. Except for the last. There wasn't going to be a 440 hemi, because the engine was built to rule Nascar. With a 7 litre size limit, 426 was it. That's why Ford and Chev had their 427 engines, and Pontiac had the 421. The 440's conventional valvetrain had to carry the street duty for lower priced muscle for us.

Now if only the street 444 low deck ball-stud hemi prototypes had actually come into production... But by then the emissions and economy issues were here.
 
No complaints with any of your observations. Except for the last. There wasn't going to be a 440 hemi, because the engine was built to rule Nascar. With a 7 litre size limit, 426 was it. That's why Ford and Chev had their 427 engines, and Pontiac had the 421. The 440's conventional valvetrain had to carry the street duty for lower priced muscle for us.

Now if only the street 444 low deck ball-stud hemi prototypes had actually come into production... But by then the emissions and economy issues were here.


Thanks for clarifying. I was only pointing out if Chrysler simply followed the upward CI direction like everyone else. By 70 it was 450-ish CI territory for most but most didn't have a hemi! I also believe that the superiority of the hemi head worked against Chrysler in the rules dept. Gave an excuse to add ballast or something.
 
Hey I'm a Die Hard !! Mopar guy, as most you here already know !! & my 1st car was a 68 Charger R/T, my step father Bob was a die hard Pontiac & Mopar racer, in the hay day from 1962-75, don't misunderstand what I'm about to say & I was raised a Mopar & GM guy, but I like more than just Mopar's too, but they are my 1st love, but also just calling Chevy/GM slow &/or junk as a blanket statement, "is just not accurate, at all".... Chevy's best selling point {for racing anyway} was & still is afford-ability, you can build {& sometime buy} 2-3 Chevy's, for the money spent on building a single Mopar of equal horsepower & ET... Allot of available parts & support from GM/Chevy, that we don't have with our Mopar's, anything/everything you need &/or want is readily available for them... I know, I broke the 7 sec ET, 1/4 mile barrier in 1981 with $10k w/everything off the shelf parts, no special orders etc. & a little Top Gun N20 system, in a 67 "back halved" Camaro 468ci LS7 stock & balanced/blueprinted bottom end w/ necessary SFI safety equipment, w/fully ported "rectangle" port LS7 headed w/full roller, titanium & S/S valve-train {Hands down much better flowing "stock" iron Cylinder Heads, for the money, until you compare a Hemi}, single 4500 Holley 4bbl all iron BBC & Powerglide, with a 9" ford rear w/4.56:1 gears & a spool & 14"x32" d-5 Goodyear's & an old Alston Engineering Ladder bar rear suspension, stock type front suspension & sub-frame connectors, w/10pt cage.... At the same time I was building a 69 RR basically the same suspension set-up, to do the same thing {well almost anyway} & It took me nearly $30k to do it in a similar size/weight/& w/allot more CI Mopar wedge {with highly modified & fully ported "max wedged" heads}, it was also on N20 & a stroker 440ci/517ci @ 0.060" over w/4.4" bore & 4.25" stroker "billet Hemi Crankshaft" & Carrillo Rods/custom Venolia pistons {only thing available for Mopars at that time}, full 0.750" lift custom roller & S/S & Titanium valve train, w/2 660 Holley 4bbl's on a Tunnel Ram it never could break into the 7's & not for lack of effort money &/or time testing & thrashing... In my honest opinion allot of the car hobby is about $$$$$$$ spent & afordability, especially while raising children, maintaining a household, working your a$$ off to survive... Also in the mid 80's & until the late 90's Mopar Performance/Direct Connection had almost no decent flowing race cylinder heads for Mopars, 300cfm was a milestone, for Mopar Wedge Heads {350cfm was a norm for Big Chevy's}, before the B1 for the wedge engines & unless you owned a Hemi & had a very fat wallet &/or fat bank account, had the ability to build a big stroker engine when parts weren't readily available like they are today &/or had a car passed down in the family or some-other way of cutting the extraordinarily high costs of building a "truly fast race car", Chevy was very easy to get 800hp from on a budget, evn in les than 500ci's & that's not really practical on any Mopars, especially while on a strict budget, "still isn't really"... But it's much better now, than it use to be... It was nearly impossible especially on a budget to have a Mopar car A, E or B-body, that could run faster than the 10.0's in the 1/4 mile, with out throwing "a ton of money at it".... It's much better now, than even just 10 years ago, it ain't the 60's anymore either, for the Mopar enthusiast, those very fast cars refereed to by a few were very rare & for only select few Chrysler Race Teams & not the average Joe Racer & the mid 60's were a different story all together, than today, GM had quite a few very competitive cars, in all drag racing classes, today they dominate drag racing except in a select few Blown Pro/Mod cars, select P/S cars, most of T/A & both the T/Fuel all Pro/Semi Pro classes... But also almost all their stuff is based on the old Mopar Hemi design, but have very little/if any original Mopar, blocks, heads, camshafts, crankshafts, intakes etc. or any Mopar parts in or on them still, like the 60's & 70's cars did, it's all aftermarket stuff now, except in the high dollar $$$$$ ultra rare S/S cars, that are not in 95% of most cars guys price ranges & only very few were actually ever produced & very few ever were sold to the general public.... The BBC Chevy can handle allot of RPM too 7500rpm easily, even with stock HP parts, where the Mopar Wedge engine usually shouldn't be &/or can't be spun that high, with out being highly modified... I really almost think it's envy or jealousy for the most part.... Also I never have really tried to build a truly fast Ford, not my area of knowledge, "but have had a few very quick ones"... That's the facts my friends, just the facts... Hey I love Mopars too, but why bash the Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Olds & Ford guys
 
Good post Budnicks.......

Boils down to GM made/makes good cars-engines, same with Mopar and Ford. All three also made/makes poor cars/engines as well...As a kid I watched my old man drive a '66 Ford Fairlane w/289 out of a farm field after sitting for 15 years, had the car for 15 more and the odometer flipped twice before the car basically rotted in half. Have a buddy with a 66' Pontiac Le Man's and a 326 making a few turns less than 500HP and it's been run hard that way for a decade. Had a friend in High school with a '71 Chevelle and a 383 stroker that could burn the tires off for a city block and then some.

I'm like you guys and love my Mopars, always will but I don't I believe mopar drivetrains and cars are far superior to anything else. They all have their good points, they all have their bad. Now Mopar styling on the other hand I believe takes the cake when I comes to the muscle car era. I honestly feel sorry for the folks that are so one-sided they won't pop their head under the hood of that '58 impala at the gas station or that Ford Galaxie sitting at the car show. One can really learn a lot from all the different engineering from the OEM's as well as the owners touch. What can I say....I love cars. Good Old American Classic cars. If it's a GTO Judge for the month on June on my Garage Calendar, i'll proudly display it...I'd take a '70 GTX or '68 Charger over it any day, but the car is still a huge part of the american history of the automobile and deserves some respect.

All you guys have run into those die hard GM or Ford guys jacking their gums claiming their car is the best thing since the invention of the wheel. Most shrug them off as being dense, arrogant idiots that don't know their *** from a hole in the ground. So why would you want to be that guy? Why not take from all the great innovation that came out of Detroit, appreciate the thought and effort that what was put into it and even apply it to your own ride to make it better. All the aftermarket bolt on's out there, that a great majority of folks on this site have on their ride are not direct descendants of strictly Mopar products.....In most cases it's a cumulative combination of all brands, including some technology from oversea's.

Again, I'll stick with my mopars, they've always stuck by me, but I ain't gonna lie...I'll crack a grin when I hear and see an old Firebird rumbling down the highway or that Cutlass packed full of the family with the top down going for a summer evening cruise. If you don't get a kick out of that.....maybe you should take up fly fishing or something, because you are not a car guy.
 
I can't bash Chevy beings how I've owned around 30 of them and drove a 64 El Camino for about 20 years. I've also owned around 20 Fords so can't bash then either. But I have owned over 300 Mopars from real nice cars to parts cars. I just love cars. All kinds and makes. Old ones and new ones.
Most Chevy and Ford guys have never owned a Mopar and don't have a leg to stand one when in a debate with me.
 
Good post Budnicks.......

Boils down to GM made/makes good cars-engines, same with Mopar and Ford. All three also made/makes poor cars/engines as well...As a kid I watched my old man drive a '66 Ford Fairlane w/289 out of a farm field after sitting for 15 years, had the car for 15 more and the odometer flipped twice before the car basically rotted in half. Have a buddy with a 66' Pontiac Le Man's and a 326 making a few turns less than 500HP and it's been run hard that way for a decade. Had a friend in High school with a '71 Chevelle and a 383 stroker that could burn the tires off for a city block and then some.

I'm like you guys and love my Mopars, always will but I don't I believe mopar drivetrains and cars are far superior to anything else. They all have their good points, they all have their bad. Now Mopar styling on the other hand I believe takes the cake when I comes to the muscle car era. I honestly feel sorry for the folks that are so one-sided they won't pop their head under the hood of that '58 impala at the gas station or that Ford Galaxie sitting at the car show. One can really learn a lot from all the different engineering from the OEM's as well as the owners touch. What can I say....I love cars. Good Old American Classic cars. If it's a GTO Judge for the month on June on my Garage Calendar, i'll proudly display it...I'd take a '70 GTX or '68 Charger over it any day, but the car is still a huge part of the american history of the automobile and deserves some respect.

All you guys have run into those die hard GM or Ford guys jacking their gums claiming their car is the best thing since the invention of the wheel. Most shrug them off as being dense, arrogant idiots that don't know their *** from a hole in the ground. So why would you want to be that guy? Why not take from all the great innovation that came out of Detroit, appreciate the thought and effort that what was put into it and even apply it to your own ride to make it better. All the aftermarket bolt on's out there, that a great majority of folks on this site have on their ride are not direct descendants of strictly Mopar products.....In most cases it's a cumulative combination of all brands, including some technology from oversea's.

Again, I'll stick with my mopars, they've always stuck by me, but I ain't gonna lie...I'll crack a grin when I hear and see an old Firebird rumbling down the highway or that Cutlass packed full of the family with the top down going for a summer evening cruise. If you don't get a kick out of that.....maybe you should take up fly fishing or something, because you are not a car guy.

Amen brother, Very well said Prop.... I like Mopars 1st & foremost, especially any from 1968... what can I say I have a sickness...LOL....
 
chevy bashing

O.K. I thought this thread was for bashing chevies, not about how great Mopars are. We already know that! I've had a few chevies in my life. The first was my wifes 76 Camaro. Right rear quarter rusted out around the window,wheelwell,lower quarter. No rust any where on the car, just that one quarter,and the car was only 7 years old. Then the starter bolt sheared off in the block (6 cylinder). Later I bought a 68 camaro, driving to work with a stock 350, a rocker just snaps. sold that one and bought a 68 convertible. Jacked the car up on the Sub frame and the windshield splits from body flex. Both 68s had to have the crappy subframe bushings replaced,which is hard when the subframes rot where the bushings go. that has to be the worst design ever. Mopar and Ford got it right with full unibodies.the convertible was the slowest stock V8 car I've ever owned. And what about chevy shims? why can't their starters fit without shims? What about the also crappy valvetrain? How many band aids does that setup need to work as well as a Mopar rocker shaft design.AND they were truly the Worst riding car I've ever owned. And the heater sucked. I froze in that car. well that's all I can think of for now.............except Cheap Heap Every Valve Rattles Oil Leaks Every Time
 
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My first car in high school was a 68 chevelle. Loved that car! Froze the SB 327 one night on the freeway. I'm not sure exactly what happened i was just cruising. I never saw the teardown of the motor, I assume I lost oil pressure and you know what happens next. Another chevy was an S10 Blazer 4x4 with a 4.3 v6. As soon as I started hear rod knock in the bottom end I sold it. To be fair it had a ton of miles, but I never understood the point of an odd fire v6 or compensating with offset rod journals. Weak!!! Other Chebby was a 97 V6 camaro. it was only a v6 and hated it for that. But even more hated was the ergonomics. Seat was too low, steerring wheel and shifter was to high. I just couldn't get comfortable and raising the seat put my head into the roof. Ohh and the plastic fenders would heat up and expand in the hot desert sun and prevent you from opening the door without effing them up.
 
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