Collapsed lifter?

[moparedtn]

are those the stock red magnum springs? if so it ain't the cams fault. check the valve seals to see if they're clobbered and roll the push rods across a flat surface to make sure they aren't bent.

No idea what springs those are.
Again, I didn't build the motor and the fella who did is no longer with us.
They ARE newish looking, however. If they are the "magnum" springs you speak of, are you saying they're too stiff?
Push rods look to be re-used originals and they all check out true, thankfully.

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Since I'm now doing a cam and lifter package, guys, it's time to ask for advice on choosing those.
The car is a 1968 GTX, 440 4-speed, 3.55 gears. Engine, as far as I can tell, is pretty much stock.
Intended use is street mostly. Running headers, Holley 750 3310 and full 3" exhaust with Flowmasters.
I want an easy to maintain package with a bit of a lope at idle. With limited funds, I'm about all in
on the car as it sits now.
In olden days, I'd have picked something around the 484 purpleshaft, even with the less desirable
LSA, but you can bet the farm another purpleshaft won't be going back in this one.
Recommendations?

 

[mentor70]

i would get either a Comp cams XE 268, or a Lunati Voodoo 10230702..

 

[Cranky]

I've seen a lot of cams like that over the last 15 years and it's not just the Purple Shaft MP cams doing it......

 

[moparedtn]

I've seen a lot of cams like that over the last 15 years and it's not just the Purple Shaft MP cams doing it......

See, that's what I'm concerned about when buying another cam.
Which ones are considered more "quality" than others? Are they all made of "Chineseium" these days?

By the way, do any of you knowledgeable fellas see evidence of a lack of lubrication on that cam?
How are the lobes oiled, via the lifters?

...or is this a case of too stiff a valve spring, as lewtot184 is suggesting (I think)?
Anyone know what my "red springs" are?

 

[moparedtn]

Don't mind me, think I'll just talk to myself for a while here...
I think these are the valve springs I have and if so, I don't see a problem?
http://www.manciniracing.com/mopgenpurhip2.html

 

[Cranky]

It may be low quality materials or the lack of proper break in using lubes or oils low in ZDDP. If you didn't build and break in the cam/engine yourself, you just don't know. As for the springs, over the years, I like to use the lightest spring possible for cam break in. It's a pita but worth it. And the only way to know what you really have is to take them to a shop and check them.

 

[moparedtn]

Thanks for hanging in here with me, Cranky. It's been a few decades since I've had one of these apart.
I was actually tickled that once I dove into it, things started coming back to me a little bit.
Had the thing stripped down in a couple hours, not bad for a "Relay for Life" refugee. :icon_wink:
When you've spent 6 figures fighting to stay above dirt, it's hard to come up with a lot of cash for
the critter in the garage, after all.

I'm going with these springs, since they're obviously new and of the single w/damper variety, they'll work
with the somewhat lower lift cam I'm going with.

Here's a pic of my GTX, so y'all can get a sense of what I'm desperately trying to finish here.
It's no doubt going to be the last one for me. God willing, gonna get it done.
It's the burgundy one on the right; it's brother Road Runner on the left is by the same fella who did body
and paint on mine.

 

[mentor70]

my money is on improper brake in, pretty much all US cam makers make a quality cam core, but the changes in the motor oil over the last 15 yrs have wiped out TONS of flat tappet cams.

just get some Joe Gibbs break in oil with your cam of choice and follow the manufacturers directions.

 

[moparedtn]

Ok guys, order just placed with Summit. Got this cam:
http://www.compperformancegroupstor..._Code=CC&Product_Code=21-306-4&Category_Code=
Comp Cams Magnum 270. Got their lifters too.
I may have gone a little wimpy here, but for my street/car show old man ride, I think it's gonna work out.
What do you all think?

Oh, and when I put all this back together, I want to verify there's no blocked oil passages.
How are the cam lobes oiled? I know the rocker shafts got the rockers and valves covered up top and the lifters have their own oil galleys, but how do the cam lobes get oil?

 

[moparedtn]

I'm apparently talking to myself here....
time to go find a friendlier discussion forum, I guess.

 

[dryheat]

The crankshaft slings oil all over the inside of the block ... including the camshaft lobes.

 

[Hemirunner]

The crankshaft slings oil all over the inside of the block ... including the camshaft lobes.

And there's oil coming out around every lifter. I have a clear valley cover for RB engines and there's oil everywhere in there. It's like looking into a dishwasher.

 

[Cranky]

Oil goes from the pump to the front of the crank and then to the lifter galleys on both sides. You have one cam bearing that is drilled to direct lube to both passage ways to the heads. The cam is also drilled for oil to get to these two passages through the drilled holes in the cam bearings but it's intermittent as the cam turns but the lifters are pretty much flooded with oil which also falls on the cam and you also have the spinning crank throwing it up too. The 'leakage' from the crank also throws it up on the cylinder walls. The more bearing clearance you have, the greater this leakage is and the more oil goes up on the walls which isn't always a good thing. Too much oil on the cylinder walls puts more loading on the rings.

 

[super-bee_ski]

QUOTE: "I fail to see where that's pertinent at this point in the conversation.
Anyone else? "

WOW!
-Are you kidding me?
That is a rather poor dismissal considering someone was trying to help you.

 

[moparedtn]

QUOTE: "I fail to see where that's pertinent at this point in the conversation.
Anyone else? "

WOW!
-Are you kidding me?
That is a rather poor dismissal considering someone was trying to help you.

You should make a point of reading beyond the first few posts. It gets better. All is well between DD and I.
Thanks.

- - - Updated - - -

Wow, is Summit fast or what? Ordered all this stuff yesterday morning and it's here already!
Got everything to do the job except the cam itself, which is direct shipping from Comp in Florida.
Actually excited to do this. Never liked how the car ran before with the purpleshaft anyways.
Also taking the opportunity to use the FelPro bathtub that blocks off the heat crossover as well.

Again, any opinions on my cam choice?

- - - Updated - - -

The crankshaft slings oil all over the inside of the block ... including the camshaft lobes.

Thanks. I've wondered about that pretty much since I've worked on engines. The cam lobes just magically seem to get oil thrown at them and I couldn't see how the lifter bores had enough clearance to get any down there.

- - - Updated - - -

And there's oil coming out around every lifter. I have a clear valley cover for RB engines and there's oil everywhere in there. It's like looking into a dishwasher.

That sounds like a neat invention. Does it stay clear enough for any length of time to see? Does engine heat affect it?

- - - Updated - - -

Oil goes from the pump to the front of the crank and then to the lifter galleys on both sides. You have one cam bearing that is drilled to direct lube to both passage ways to the heads. The cam is also drilled for oil to get to these two passages through the drilled holes in the cam bearings but it's intermittent as the cam turns but the lifters are pretty much flooded with oil which also falls on the cam and you also have the spinning crank throwing it up too. The 'leakage' from the crank also throws it up on the cylinder walls. The more bearing clearance you have, the greater this leakage is and the more oil goes up on the walls which isn't always a good thing. Too much oil on the cylinder walls puts more loading on the rings.

Yeah, I knew about all the passages and galleys and such, just never pictured how those lobes, hanging out in mid-air like that, got oil.
You know where I was going with this, since we're talking about a wiped cam and lifters, right?
I'm trying to make sure this doesn't happen again from a lack of lubrication, if that is in fact what happened to the last cam.
I don't think that's what happened, just being overly cautious. I've spent the last 4 years off and on correcting what the previous owner did to the car and this is just the latest, I'm afraid.

 

[Hemirunner]

Cam choice will work out much better than the purple shaft.

- - - Updated - - -

That sounds like a neat invention. Does it stay clear enough for any length of time to see? Does engine heat affect it?

It stays clear right up to the point that you start the engine. Then you can't see a thing. It's a little better on engines with bushed lifter bores and restricted oiling. Engine heat doesn't really affect it as far as I can tell.

 

[super-bee_ski]

i would get either a Comp cams XE 268, or a Lunati Voodoo 10230702..

I just put that Comp Cams XE 268 cam in the 67 GTX I'm building
(It was the infamous "Horrible Noises" video here on the Forum)

Essentially moparedtn, (Ed?) I was in your very same shoes, I recently purchased a 67 GTX from someone who had the engine re-built in So Carolina. The video is on the forum, anyway it had some issues so I decided to pull the entire engine apart and do the re-build my Bud.
I was afraid the 440 would LATHE the lifter like yours.
PS: The engine had less than 200 miles on it.
The 440 pics are from the pics I took last week. The Comp 268 is a broad torque cam. 1,600 t0 5,400 ?

PS: Sorry about my previous post, I just thought you were being rude.

 

[mentor70]

you cam choice will be fine, but you left the potential of a broader torque curve by not going with the options i offered.

Asymmetrical cams that are tailored to Mopars faster rates of lift have been gaining popularity for a while now thanks to Engle cams, Huhges, and more rencently Comp and Lunati.

seeings that your car will be more of a show car VS a street machine or dragster, i dont think it will make much difference either way

you may want to buy a pushrod length checking tool as well, to verify that the pushrods are of proper length

 

[moparedtn]

Cam choice will work out much better than the purple shaft.

- - - Updated - - -



It stays clear right up to the point that you start the engine. Then you can't see a thing. It's a little better on engines with bushed lifter bores and restricted oiling. Engine heat doesn't really affect it as far as I can tell.

I'd love to see it. Is it online anywhere?

- - - Updated - - -

I just put that Comp Cams XE 268 cam in the 67 GTX I'm building
(It was the infamous "Horrible Noises" video here on the Forum)

Essentially moparedtn, (Ed?) I was in your very same shoes, I recently purchased a 67 GTX from someone who had the engine re-built in So Carolina. The video is on the forum, anyway it had some issues so I decided to pull the entire engine apart and do the re-build my Bud.
I was afraid the 440 would LATHE the lifter like yours.
PS: The engine had less than 200 miles on it.
The 440 pics are from the pics I took last week. The Comp 268 is a broad torque cam. 1,600 t0 5,400 ?

PS: Sorry about my previous post, I just thought you were being rude.



View attachment 259399View attachment 259400

Oh man, she's gorgeous! Much fancier than mine - well, I guess you can tell from the pics I posted.
Yeah, same deal with my motor. Allegedly a "fresh" build. Well....sorta. Not so much, come to find out.
Not a good time to find out, either, since the budget and time have expired pretty much on mine.
Man, I'd love to get rid of the factory intake on mine, for example. Sucker weighs a TON.

No worries on the comment. I can see how intent could have been misconstrued on mine. I tend to
type "bluntly" but don't mean it that way.

- - - Updated - - -

you cam choice will be fine, but you left the potential of a broader torque curve by not going with the options i offered.

Asymmetrical cams that are tailored to Mopars faster rates of lift have been gaining popularity for a while now thanks to Engle cams, Huhges, and more rencently Comp and Lunati.

seeings that your car will be more of a show car VS a street machine or dragster, i dont think it will make much difference either way

you may want to buy a pushrod length checking tool as well, to verify that the pushrods are of proper length

I literally was on line with Summit asking for the two exact cams you mentioned, only to find out neither could get here from them in a timely manner, so I went with what I thought to be close in the Comp cam that they could get to me quickly - so I wound up with the 270.
Hate to say it, but given my health, time is of the essence unfortunately.
"You don't know how much time you have" is only an old saying....until you're living it. I am.
It is what it is.
I'm not done yet.

 

[super-bee_ski]

Thanks man,
I am following this thread.
Great thread, great story.