Cooling our early B's

[Frustration]

Khryslerkid...beautiful engine! I picked up a buddies old shroud from his '62 Chevy. He custom made it, but changed some things and didn't need it any longer. The pics are of the radiator and shroud last night. I plan to put on a second coat of paint today (if it ever stops raining) and give it a try. Results in a couple of days when it drys out.

 

[miller]

Guess I need to do some research, to answer my question, but out of being curious, I'll ask.

What did the MW cars use for radiators, and fans? Since those were 22".

 

[Frustration]

...by the way, on my RR, I installed an aluminum water pump from 440 Source. I had cooling issues which never happened before. Tried replacing the t-stat, radiator cap, and didn't help. Pulled the water pump and found that the impeller came off of the shaft. It was sitting inside the housing. There was nothing on the shaft to keep the impeller in place, other than a press fit. I replaced it with another brand I had on the shelf. It appeared to be the exact same one. I put a tack of weld on it and it's been fine since.

Has anyone tried the high flow water pumps? What advantage can I expect if I go this route? That's my next step if this isn't successful.

 

[miller]

I've read it's recommended to use a water pump for an a/c car, over a standard pump. Suppose more flow.

 

[early2drsedan]

Miller max wedge cars in 62-63 had a 22in rad with a steel 4 blade fan 64 had 22 in rad with a clutch fan think it was five blade

 

[Glenwood]

I used a summit high flow pump. Some say that if it flows too fast the coolant can't transfer enough heat to the rad, so pulley ratios can also affect the system.

 

[miller]

Miller max wedge cars in 62-63 had a 22in rad with a steel 4 blade fan 64 had 22 in rad with a clutch fan think it was five blade

That's how I remember, but wonder how many cores in the radiator. Don't know what year it is, but have one clutch fan...too old, so don't trust it. Besides the fact, 440 in mine is mounted stock location, not much room up front. 1 1/2" fan to rad, no spacer.
Just seems, never heard about MW cars overheating.

 

[Glenwood]

What was the timing set at on the maxies and what were the carb sizes? Wondering if too much timing and too much carb is causing too much heat for our cruisers.

 

[khryslerkid]

MW engines weren't useing ethanol contaminated gas.

I've used E-free 89 octane and it will definitely run cooler than running 92 octane 10% ethanol. I'll add the Stable 360 when useing the 10%. For storage It will get filled with E-free.

I picked up a buddies old shroud from his '62 Chevy.

The trick is to make sure about 1/3 of the fan blade is showing out of the shroud (toward engine). If the whole fan is inside the shroud it causes a turbulence that won't even pull air.

Looking good!

 

[Frustration]

As a follow-up...I installed the modified shroud from above. I took the car for a drive and made sure to drive through traffic with lots of stops. The temp was much better controlled. It ran at 180 degrees while driving. I have a 180 t-stat. When stopped at a light, or idling, the temp climbed, but much slower than in the past. It never got above 195. Today isn't the hottest day we'll see, but it is likely mid 80's and humid. I'm going to run it this way for a while. If the problem persists, I may try my brother's fan. It has a more aggressive blade pitch. After that, high-flow water pump. Hoping this issue is done. Thanks for all the help.

 

[khryslerkid]

If the problem persists, I may try my brother's fan. It has a more aggressive blade pitch.

The Derale fan blade I posted from Summit really has great reviews and I can tell you it really moves a lot of air!

Not enough timing will cause added heat.

50/50 antifreeze mix will run hotter than a more diluted mix. I get by with a 10 deg mix. The more water (distilled) you use the better. Water transfers heat more effectively.

The 8 blade water pump I posted a pic of, moves coolant really well.

If you're useing fuel with added ethanol it's going to run warmer than a ethanol free. If you're not going over 200 deg in stop and go traffic on a warm day, you're doing fine.

 

[andyf]

Guess I need to do some research, to answer my question, but out of being curious, I'll ask.

What did the MW cars use for radiators, and fans? Since those were 22".

The MW cars weren't designed for street driving so don't pay attention to them. If you have cooling problems then you need to look at Taxi cars, police cars, station wagons, etc. If you study the factory parts book you'll see that those cars came with max cooling packages which included a shroud, different pulley ratios, more vanes in the water pump, etc. The factory engineers knew what they had to do to keep the cars cool. More water volume, bigger radiator, more pump speed, a shroud, a big fan, etc. This stuff has all been known and documented for 50+ years. Just need to follow the recipe.

 

[miller]

The MW cars weren't designed for street driving so don't pay attention to them.

Thanks for that, andyf! Of course, your absolutely correct. Didn't know if there was anything special about the rads.
No real problems on mine, now, though might be a plus to change the stock water pump, to a/c type.

Still, a great topic to discuss.

 

[Glenwood]

Not enough timing will cause added heat.

I've read somewhere that too much advance can also add heat. I was reading up on old engine specs and the early 60s timing for RBs with approx 10:1 CR or less seemed to start at about 10btc with mechanical advance adding 18-24 more, but at around 2000rpm. We tend to set our initial around 18-22 degrees and adjust the mechanical advance accordingly. Is that too much initial for compression ratios below 10.5:1 or does the cr even matter?

edit: here's a pretty good explanation I found on another site to answer my own question. Thought it might help others too...

Retarded will over heat it most quickly. The burn occurs over about 80 degrees of crank rotation, when started late, there isn't time for the the flame temps to be reduced by work against the crank. This combined with the reaction still occurring when the exhaust valve opens conspires to dump really hot gases into the exhaust passages. This greatly increases the valve temp and the amount of heat picked up by the cooling system thru the structure of the head and exhaust port. The exhaust manifold/headers also become very hot, enough to glow. With retarded timing, the temps come up very quickly.

Too much advance will eventually result in overheating but it's much slower to build compared to retarded timing. Usually before anything bad happens one usually notices that the engine is hard to start, tends to explode thru the carb, and if it runs at all it's with no power and tends to detonate from the extreme pressures formed before TDC. So you usually head this problem off before the temps get very high.

 

[383man]

You guys have some very nice setups on your cooling systems. I agree with everyone that a shroud and a good rad are a must. I use a flex fan with shroud I made fit. I also agree a good clutch fan is the best fan to use and I hope to find one to fit my setup soon. But I have an Afco aluminum rad and use a Dakota truck shroud I modified to fit. And that's because the right shroud that I wanted to buy cost a lot of money as they wanted well over $200 dollars for a shroud. So I got one that looked like I could make it work from a Dakota in a salvage yard for $10 dollars. My setup works good but I also added a pusher electric fan on a toggle switch because when stuck in traffic for a 1/2 hr or more mine would creep up to 200 and I did not like that. So I flip the switch for my electric fan when stuck in traffic and that keeps it about 190 or lower. But with a real good rad and a shroud and a good clutch fan you will have a good setup. Ron

 

[miller]

We tend to set our initial around 18-22 degrees and adjust the mechanical advance accordingly.

Noted, Glenwood. Yeah, old school (factory) settings, for initial/advance, and at two grand. But, that was also on 'good' gas!
Right, or wrong , on my Mallory, looking at some changes. Initial is really just retarded timing, for easy starting. Though, my dual point is set, with 24 degrees advance, @3000rpm. Going to reduce advance to 20-21 degrees, @2000rpm.
3000rpm is okay, if time is spent on the strip, but street is usually 1800-2200rpm, remembering back in the day. Guessing others think different.

 

[Ron H]

As mentioned there are many posts on this topic and I generated a couple having my tricked up poly running way hot. Thanks to fellow members I did the following:
4 to 7 blade fan (it fit perfect with the original spacer), found an OEM shroud refurbished-installed, installed top seal btw hood and top of rad (my car never had one, but some apparently did), reduced the coolant mix more water less freeze, and added water-wetter. This has worked well; but still think it's a tad hotter than should be though under control. Yeah, surprised some BB's ran fine with the 22" and had a 426 parked next to me at a show without shroud, seal, etc. Advanced timing, heftier cam, .60 bore over creates more heat. Druthers? The OEM shroud is rather wimpy so could do better there I'm sure and if I would get more motivated a better rad. I'll take this opportunity to thank all those who tossed over great advice!

 

[Ron H]

On the subject of T-stat's from what I've heard (some have posted) they have no influence on a car running hot unless it doesn't open or open fully. The gen idea is to get a faster warm up for those in the cold climates to get defrost/heat sooner, reach warm idle if you have such set up. (Mine's gone with headers) Once motor temp is up, it's up, T-stat means nada intense cold aside. Also some have opined to take it out when cold weather isn't a factor (stored winters). Mechanic buddy advised this isn't a good idea as the increase in flow through the rad is faster, gather more so with hi-flow pumps, where cooling is actually reduced as the rad can't do its job...

 

[khryslerkid]

Though, my dual point is set, with 24 degrees advance, @3000rpm. Going to reduce advance to 20-21 degrees, @2000rpm.
3000rpm is okay, if time is spent on the strip, but street is usually 1800-2200rpm, remembering back in the day. Guessing others think different.

I did the same to my dual point. Much better now. I'm useing the vacuum advance and had to limit that also.

 

[BBishere2]

My ‘65 has a 22” radiator. Changed the stock one out to a BeCool 2 tube aluminum, no shroud. Changed the water pump and housing over to an aluminum housing with high volume pump from Mancini. Installed a Robert Shaw type 180 degree thermostat as opposed to a Stant as they flow more coolant. 7 blade mechanical fan that sits about 3/4” away from radiator. Also have an electrical pusher fan in front of the radiator that is seldom needed. May turn it on in stop and go traffic sitting for awhile, other than that it runs right at 180 driving around without the electric fan on.