Curious about the zinc in break in oils......

[bandit67]

Zinc is an element that we use in our motor oils to ensure minimum wear during engine break in. We are told this is essential in avoiding cam/lifter failures at start up. We buy infused zinc motor oil, zinc oil additives , and , I assume the cam lube paste we apply directly to the lobes also contains high amounts of zinc. My question is , is the zinc in these forms small enough to pass thru an oil filter or is it getting pulled out as the oil flows thru the filter. I understand from my old Chevy days that only 12% of oil flow on stock engines passes thru the filter while running. Would that be a fair assumption on stock Mopar engines in general as well. Just wondering if we are poking it in there and the filter is pulling it out...thanks....

 

[j-c-c-62]

Zinc is an element that we use in our motor oils to ensure minimum wear during engine break in. We are told this is essential in avoiding cam/lifter failures at start up. We buy infused zinc motor oil, zinc oil additives , and , I assume the cam lube paste we apply directly to the lobes also contains high amounts of zinc. My question is , is the zinc in these forms small enough to pass thru an oil filter or is it getting pulled out as the oil flows thru the filter. I understand from my old Chevy days that only 12% of oil flow on stock engines passes thru the filter while running. Would that be a fair assumption on stock Mopar engines in general as well. Just wondering if we are poking it in there and the filter is pulling it out...thanks....

Well, that is 100% more than when it's not running,
Seriously, where did you hear that and clarify/explain how exactly?
If the premise is true that zinc is filtered out 88% every time it passes thru the filter, it would be very easy to bench test and prove I suspect, and I highly doubt it is.

 

[68-500]

I have also heard only a portion of oil circulating gets filtered. But I haven’t found anything to substantiate that claim. I believe the zinc is smaller than your average filter catches.

 

[Lefty71]

When the filter clogs, 100% of the everything passes thru the engines oiling passages.

 

[j-c-c-62]

In most cases, but when have you last heard of a filter clogging 100%?

 

[Krooser]

In most cases, but when have you last heard of a filter clogging 100%?

I have seen it person on an engine with a leaky head gasket.

Many filters filter about 25 microns ... the bypass filters I used on my diesel engines were 5 microns. 50k on the oil and it was still clear.

Every factory filter I know of is a full flow... the filter is in the main oil gallery and every drop gets filtered. Bypass filters were used 70 years ago on engines without primary oil filters... flathead fords, mopar flat sixes, chevy stovebolt 6's, etc.

 

[mpgmike]

Looking at ZDDP (zinc) oils and additives, understand that the zinc must be in a colloidal form. Basically, this is a molecule. A molecule will easily flow through any oil filter out there -- Fram,
Wix, Amsoil, all of them. There may be an issue where you are using a SN rated oil, which is high detergent, and adding a zinc (ZDDP) additive. The conventional oil has detergents that will remove the zinc as quickly as the additive can deposit it. You really don't get the benefits of the zinc additive.

At least for break-in, use a Break-In oil. It will have the ZDDP (zinc), probably phosphorous, as well as other protective additives, but will lack the detergents that will negate the protection. These oils are usually 10W-30 or other older conventional viscosities. You probably won't see a 0W-20 break-in oil.

Also, I want to reinforce previous posts expounding the importance of using light springs on break-in. After a half hour at 2500 RPM you can swap them out. Get the cam broke in on light springs.

 

[bandit67]

Thanks mike, I just changed out the Lucus SAE 30 I used to break in a 440. Did not see a non detergent listing on the label. Listing on the jug states 'NOT legal for street use', I assume that's because of the extra zinc added that must accede some federal regulations now. I left it in there much longer that recommended as weather has not permitted much drive time. It was very dirty looking, and I saved the filter to cut open and see what's in there.

 

[69hemibeep]

Zinc, Phosphorous were removed because they kill catalytic converters, the old oils had detergent in them also. I don't think race oil ever had detergents in them.

 

[RJRENTON]

Looking at ZDDP (zinc) oils and additives, understand that the zinc must be in a colloidal form. Basically, this is a molecule. A molecule will easily flow through any oil filter out there -- Fram,
Wix, Amsoil, all of them. There may be an issue where you are using a SN rated oil, which is high detergent, and adding a zinc (ZDDP) additive. The conventional oil has detergents that will remove the zinc as quickly as the additive can deposit it. You really don't get the benefits of the zinc additive.

At least for break-in, use a Break-In oil. It will have the ZDDP (zinc), probably phosphorous, as well as other protective additives, but will lack the detergents that will negate the protection. These oils are usually 10W-30 or other older conventional viscosities. You probably won't see a 0W-20 break-in oil.

Also, I want to reinforce previous posts expounding the importance of using light springs on break-in. After a half hour at 2500 RPM you can swap them out. Get the cam broke in on light springs.

Zinc bearing oils, AKA Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate, the zinc and Phosphates are in molecular form and are not filtered out as the oil passes thru the filter media. Depending on brand of filter used, the MICRON filter material can vary an a micron = One micron in decimal form is 0.001 millimeters, or 0.00003937 inches. There is a slight pressure drop (loss) as the oil passes thru the filter, depending on viscosity and pressure and temperature of the oil. Just thought you might like to know.......
BOB RENTON

 

[Kern Dog]

Zinc bearing oils, AKA Zinc Dialkyl Dithio Phosphate, the zinc and Phosphates are in molecular form and are not filtered out as the oil passes thru the filter media.
BOB RENTON

Please help me understand....
Where you stated that the ZDDP is in molecular form, is that to mean that it is different than the stuff that is in the pour in additives like this stuff?

I nominate THIS brand as the most useless "tits on a bull" motor oil:

Hey wait....what do you mean? I see it is a synthetic though....

It also lists EXTRA ZDDP for protection...

But then you flip it around and see the label.

Yeah....SL, SM, SN are all the latest formulas with HIGH detergent.
An oil with high detergent will wipe off the ZDDP as the oil circulates. This is like a police force that arrests all criminals but leaves the jailhouse doors open.