E-85 What are your results?

[67 B-body]

I just commented on E-85 in another post, and thought maybe it should be its own thread for discussion.
A couple guys on here have made the switch and reported some pretty good gains in performance. I can only imagine that it helps beat the heat during hot summer days at the track! The price per gallon is less than gasoline, and I would hope that when OPEC raises its price per barrel, that E-85 remains the same!

 

[Cranky]

With the luck I've been having with E10, I'm not too sure I want to use the 85. The 10 has played havoc with my small engine tools. If you don't keep really fresh gas in them, it'll mess up the carb in short order. Sta-Bil helps but even that doesn't make it keep for very long. Plus food for fuel. Man, that's just so ain't right. You're paying more for it than you know with it making the price of anything to do with corn go sky high not to mention the fed subsidy it gets. When that stops, the price will shoot up higher....

 

[67 B-body]

I live in farm country, and I can tell you that there is plenty of corn to go around. Heck corn is lost every year due to it setting in grain silos for so long and mold setting in. At this point it is no longer good for cattle to even eat!
You have to make the change/upgrade to E-85 before you can effectively use it. I think for daily drivers, you are using things up before they can go bad "if it actualy does", and my street strip car has a ten gallon fuel cell,,, like many others cars, we use that up in short order..lol!

 

[Cranky]

Then why is the price of corn so high? I thought it was like any other commodity...supply and demand dictates prices? And how do you upgrade small engines for the use of ethanol blends? Even my two trail bikes which don't sit all that much had to have the carbs rebuilt. I usually run my generator every couple of months but the last time out, it ran so crappy that I had to redo it too. Sta-Bil treated non E gasoline would last for a good year before I even had to think about running it out and putting fresh in the tank....not anymore. I have a nephew that owns an auto repair shop and he says 25% of his business is from messed up fuel systems. He said before the E10 came along, every once in awhile did someone come in with fuel system problems.

 

[67 B-body]

I dont know about stock factory fuel systems handling E-"anything". I was more interested in how the E-85 behaves after the upgrade. Lots of info on Google search, but I would like non bias testimonials on how things worked out after carb changes are made.
I ran alchohol "Methanol" in the Late Model for years with great luck, but I added a fuel conditioner to it to lube things. It's available from any dirt track performance supplier. I think I got ours from Kears Speed Shop. I read that they handle the same within the fuel system, so I would think that you could add the same conditioner. I also read that they leave the 15% gasoline in E-85 to do this very thing..... I dont know how the small percentage of Ethanol your speaking of causes you such bad results?

 

[Cranky]

Houston and surrounding counties are mandated to E10 at present. The newer cars have the fuel system 'upgrade' to use the different fuels. How do I like it an how does the E85 perform. I can't tell ya that but I really don't like the E10. My mileage isn't as good and the performance is about the same but that's only E10. As for methanol....never used it in a car but it's great for lighting up my bbq pit! Just one charcoal briquette soaked in it will light up the pit no problem!

 

[Meep-Meep]

As I understand it you can get some big power gains running E85 but you have to use nearly twice as much to do it - not to mention the necessary increase in compression. To me going through the expense of a conversion and netting about the same fuel economy doesn't seem logical for a street car. Part of the prep requires the metal components that see alcohol be made out of stainless or some other corrosion resistant material. So far I have a hard time believing there is a substitute for good 'ol gas.

 

[67 B-body]

As I understand it you can get some big power gains running E85 but you have to use nearly twice as much to do it - not to mention the necessary increase in compression. To me going through the expense of a conversion and netting about the same fuel economy doesn't seem logical for a street car. Part of the prep requires the metal components that see alcohol be made out of stainless or some other corrosion resistant material. So far I have a hard time believing there is a substitute for good 'ol gas.

I think I read 30% increase in jetting is part of the setup with E-85. Using methonal before, I know it was around 70% greater but I understand through research that E-85 is less than that.
I'm pretty certain that gasoline will be higher priced by next summer, which is were I wonder how things stack up in cost to operate the hotrod.
I have HIGH compression, so this is a HUGE bennefit for me, and one of the reasons for interest in results of others using it.
I keep seeing higher octane numbers slowly becoming unavalable. At sunoco a few years back I could buy 97 octane, and now I'm seeing 92 being the high level. If my every day driver uses 87 octane that costs $4.00 / USG, then I have to pay it or buy a better fuel economy car. I switched to a 4cyl car to save fuel, but the prices of fuel have brought me back to where I was before switching to a smaller car! I wont let this impact my ability to afford my hotrod and will actively seek other fuel sources, and corn is of abundance.

 

[Budnicks]

1st off I'm not trying to diss any ones choices of fuels...Yes you can get a performance benefit from E-85's higher octane base (it will burn slower), if your fuel system is set up to use it properly to handle the extra needed fuel supply & you don't have a aluminum, pump, tank, tubing or fuel fittings, & use a quality fuel filter to catch the crystal like oxidation substances/contaminants that forms because of the corrosive properties of the alcohol, even with the use of a fuel stabilizer & top cylinder lubricant (E-85 gas /alcohol blend, is not as bad as straight Ethanol or Methanol)... Methanol & Corn base Ethanol (used in E-85) are not even close to each other, other than being alcohol, 1 is wood/synthetic grain based fermentation alcohol & is very "poisonous" & corrosive to alloys, aluminum, some steels & rubber, with condensation issues when you have any temperature flocculation... The other is made from govt. subsidized (keeping prices fixed) Corn grain fermentation & both needs a top cylinder lubricant for either type of alcohol based fuel, your fuel usages will be at a minimum 70% greater per % of volume of alcohol, or it will lean out you fuel mixture "BIG TIME"... In my opinion if your using alcohol in a race car you will get more benefits from Methanol (like 10% more power & greater cooling) than Ethanol/gas blend, both have great cooling properties, if set up correctly, but both types of alcohol have issues with condensation problems, both have issues with corrosive properties of alcohol, in a daily driver especially an older vehicle pre-1990's carburetor-ed engines you will be having problems with rubber seals & alloys in the fuel system & corrosion using either types of alcohol based fuels, sooner or latter especially in areas of the country that have a big temperature change between winter & summer contaminating fuel supplies & storage water & molds.... If you have a vehicle that sits a lot between usages & a steel fuel tank & run E-85 blend or methanol blend some high powered magnets in the bottom of your fuel tank will help "some" with the rust & corrosion issues, keeping some of it from getting in & going thru your fuel system... Just my humble opinion

 

[67 B-body]

Budnicks,
I'm not sure I follow,,, Are you saying that aluminum tanks, lines etc are more prone to a corrosive E-85 fuel than steel and rubber?
I want to know everything I can from those who have used it or experimented with it. What other things have you seen as a result of using this stuff?
I used alchohol in the late model from a 55 gal drum purchased at the begining of the season and never had an issue with the moisture folks talk about. I have heard of it going bad over winter from other racer freinds once the seal has been broken on the drum, but thats it.
I did have to use additive for lubrication, but once again, it was pure alchohol, not a blend.

 

[Budnicks]

67 B-Body ; Plastic is the best storage vessels/tanks/cells & Yes basically the steel will just rust instead of corrode from the water/condensation that is present in almost all alcohol products (hence the magnet in the steel fuel tank suggestion), alcohol of any kind, deteriorates as soon as it's exposed to the atmosphere, there are additives that will help slow it from deteriorating... Also pure rubber "is affected" by alcohol, it can dry out & rot from the inside of the fuel lines (causing many other issues), Teflon lined fuel lines can help eliminate the problem with the fuel lines, but any "true rubber" (not synthetic rubbers) parts though out the fuel system will be effected, the biggest issues I had were condensation & aluminum oxidation/corrosion (little white crystals that are very abrasive & tend to clog small orifices) & on any types of softer alloys, it dosen't seem to start right away, but it will happen sooner or latter, "I doubted it myself, thought it was an old wives tale", I had no problems for a while, I thought everyone was messing with me or were just idiots, until I started have fuel system issues mentioned, I would clean out the system regularly & would flush with pure gas, that did help some, but it would still act up at the worst times, like before a final round or late round qualifying... Straight Methanol is far worse than the "blended fuels like E-85" but it will still have the same effects just to a lesser/slower effecting levels.... Don't store the fuel on the heat or "direct sun" ever & don't store the fuel in a "high humidity" area ever, anything past "a few months max" open steel barrel especially, when they are full it's not much of a problem but as they empty the condensation issues goes up ten fold, (plastic jugs are far better storage) the alcohol after being exposed to the atmosphere will start to break down immediately & start fermentation (it will sweat producing condensation, oxidation, corrosion & molds)...

 

[brandon64]

I run E85 in my truck, almost exclusively. It is a 1964 Furd F250. I rebuilt the 223 I6 with 10:1 pistons and an aggressive cam, and a carb off of a 300 6. 450 cfm vs. stock 300 cfm. Runs rich on gasoline. At first I saw no difference in power or fuel economy. Then I advanced the timing from 6 degrees to 17 degrees and the power output was very noticeable with the same fuel economy. 9 MPG. There is a Brazilian car that it turbo charged that can seance gasoline or ethanol in the tank and adjusts turbo output (compression) to either. it gets 20 MPG either way but makes 260 HP on gas and 390 HP on ethanol. I think they put 15% gas in E85 so people don't drink it.