Engine Oil

[HD539]

 

[Slap Stick]

Oh boy! An oil thread!

 

[Kern Dog]

I've been running Shell Rotella 15w40 plus the Comp Cams additive but with the way the car cranks over so slow when cold, I wonder if the cold oil causes increased drag on the starter. I just changed the starter and it still drags when cold and turns over fine when warm. Seems that several here run the 10w30. I'm going to try that.

 

[Challenger340]

Oil 'weight' is determined by the Vertical Bearing Clearances that were "set" during the Engine Machining process..... which, if you have NO CLUE what they are internal of the Engine ?
Just keep going heavier I guess ? until the Engine maintains adequate HOT Oil Pressure idling in gear..... and at rpm.
And if your BB Mopar has gunga Oil Pressure using 10W-30.... your Bearing Clearances are waaay too tight because you cheaped out and used "stock" clearances "within spec" supplied in that DEAL Stroker Kit right ?

Anyone ever pay attention to Oil Temps ? or wonder why their brand new "stroker kit" Engine runs HOT and neither the Radiator nor little else does anything to make it run cooler ?
Guess what ?
Because it's NOT the cooling system.... it's your Bearing Clearances are too tight making your OIL Temps too high and you are just seeing it in Water Temps !

 

[snakeoil24]

That's not really true. Larger bores sizes along will create increased heat production. But you are partially right. Only partially! Cam specs and timing all contribute more problems.

 

[69/70Plymies]

I've ran Valvoline VR1 straight 30w in 383, 340, 318 for years. It has high zinc, so I don't use additives. If I had a 440, I would consider same oil in 40w. The coldest I ever start these engines is above 32 degree F. My timing is dead on and they all start fast. I've run the 383 on 95+ degree F days and water temp has always stayed between 188-190 degrees.

 

[Challenger340]

That's not really true. Larger bores sizes along will create increased heat production. But you are partially right. Only partially! Cam specs and timing all contribute more problems.

Uh yeah.... it is true.
Too Tight Oil clearances for the 'application' causing Elevated Engine cooling temps is FACT !
We see it on the Engine Dyno all the time !
High Oil Temps from insufficient Vertical Bearing Clearance as per the application = Higher Water Temps as well.
Where do you think the dead-headed hydraulic Oil heat gets dissipated ? into the Air ?

We've even re-tested an Engine for another Shop that took it off the Dyno/Dis-Assembled.... re-machined increasing the Rods/Mains from .0010"/.0020" to .0025"/.003" .... put back on the Dyno and dropped Water Temps 30*F and picked up 15 hp no other changes.

Obviously Timing, Fuel Mixtures, general tuning issues etc., can also cause higher water temps..... those are all no brainers
But Overbore/Piston size typically not a factor unless actual wall thicknesses are insufficient heat sink... again here... for the "application" and heat loading.

 

[Dennis H]

Amsoil 10-40 High Zinc.

 

[wyrmrider]

10 x anything is so last century like 20x
I want cold flow NOW even if cold is summer in Texas

 

[Cranky]

I've been running Shell Rotella 15w40 plus the Comp Cams additive but with the way the car cranks over so slow when cold, I wonder if the cold oil causes increased drag on the starter. I just changed the starter and it still drags when cold and turns over fine when warm. Seems that several here run the 10w30. I'm going to try that.

Used to run 20-50 GTX and never had a problem with starter drag. Are bearing clearances tight? How many amps is your starter drawing? Are your grounds and connections good?

Uh yeah.... it is true.
Too Tight Oil clearances for the 'application' causing Elevated Engine cooling temps is FACT !
We see it on the Engine Dyno all the time !
High Oil Temps from insufficient Vertical Bearing Clearance as per the application = Higher Water Temps as well.
Where do you think the dead-headed hydraulic Oil heat gets dissipated ? into the Air ?

We've even re-tested an Engine for another Shop that took it off the Dyno/Dis-Assembled.... re-machined increasing the Rods/Mains from .0010"/.0020" to .0025"/.003" .... put back on the Dyno and dropped Water Temps 30*F and picked up 15 hp no other changes.

Obviously Timing, Fuel Mixtures, general tuning issues etc., can also cause higher water temps..... those are all no brainers
But Overbore/Piston size typically not a factor unless actual wall thicknesses are insufficient heat sink... again here... for the "application" and heat loading.

.002 is as tight as I'll ever use but shoot for .0025.

 

[justcruisin]

So typically what oil temp should you see if all is good with bearing clearance. Both at idle and under load. I run a 5w30 with a HV pump on a 440 and I have just under 40 psi at idle (900rpm) and a touch over 70 at speed. Mains and rods are at 0.002".

 

[69sunfireGTX]

I'll cast a vote for Valvoline VR-1 10w-30.

Same here.

 

[Kern Dog]

Used to run 20-50 GTX and never had a problem with starter drag. Are bearing clearances tight? How many amps is your starter drawing? Are your grounds and connections good?

.002 is as tight as I'll ever use but shoot for .0025.

The mains are on the tight side.
The rod bearings are dead center of the spec.

 

[snakeoil24]

Uh yeah.... it is true.
Too Tight Oil clearances for the 'application' causing Elevated Engine cooling temps is FACT !
We see it on the Engine Dyno all the time !
High Oil Temps from insufficient Vertical Bearing Clearance as per the application = Higher Water Temps as well.
Where do you think the dead-headed hydraulic Oil heat gets dissipated ? into the Air ?

We've even re-tested an Engine for another Shop that took it off the Dyno/Dis-Assembled.... re-machined increasing the Rods/Mains from .0010"/.0020" to .0025"/.003" .... put back on the Dyno and dropped Water Temps 30*F and picked up 15 hp no other changes.

Obviously Timing, Fuel Mixtures, general tuning issues etc., can also cause higher water temps..... those are all no brainers
But Overbore/Piston size typically not a factor unless actual wall thicknesses are insufficient heat sink... again here... for the "application" and heat loading.

You try to make a good argue mom ent but your still only partially right. Modern engines all run muc tighter clearances then ever before and Anaheim very well. Larger bore size and increased stroke still account for majority of heat production.

 

[Bee1971]

What about standard - half groove versus 3/4 groove versus full groove main bearings and there effect on oil flow resistance and oil pressure

Us 383 guys are limited on main bearings

 

[wyrmrider]

Full groove does cost some oil pressure
and the two half grooves cannot carry the lode of a full width bearing
(each side of the bearing has a curve off of load ability near the 4 edges)
a big loss is oil to the top of the bearing
Why ford went to a Side Oilier
and why we grooved the block and side oiled at the parting line where there is some
eccentricity to get a good "oil wedge" for the hydrodynamic lubrication
Remember it takes good oil flow to take heat out of the bearings
so it's a balancing act between clearance and flow/ pressure
there are also od grooved cam bearings or we have a tool to groove the blocks so we can feed the cam somewhere around 3 oclock
The usual diagrams are for an inline engine where they show feed at around 4 o'clock
V8 has two higher pressure zones and they oscillate
cam moves all over the place

 

[turbine68rt]

Full groove does cost some oil pressure
and the two half grooves cannot carry the lode of a full width bearing
(each side of the bearing has a curve off of load ability near the 4 edges)
a big loss is oil to the top of the bearing
Why ford went to a Side Oilier
and why we grooved the block and side oiled at the parting line where there is some
eccentricity to get a good "oil wedge" for the hydrodynamic lubrication
Remember it takes good oil flow to take heat out of the bearings
so it's a balancing act between clearance and flow/ pressure
there are also od grooved cam bearings or we have a tool to groove the blocks so we can feed the cam somewhere around 3 oclock
The usual diagrams are for an inline engine where they show feed at around 4 o'clock
V8 has two higher pressure zones and they oscillate
cam moves all over the place

Although the 440 can produce decent cold or hot pressure, if I could do it over again I would have used half grooved mains vs full groove Clevite 77's. Didn't like the op with the standard volume pump, switched to a HV Melling and it's fine.
Clevite has good info showing the pressure and film loss as it relates to grooved mains using 180° as a baseline.

 

[Bee1971]

Great info regarding full groove mains

Hence my 383/432 Stroker Kit from 440 Source


https://www.mahle-aftermarket.com/m...s/support_technical_bulletins_pdfs/tb2051.pdf

 

[CompSyn]

What about standard - half groove versus 3/4 groove versus full groove main bearings and there effect on oil flow resistance and oil pressure

Us 383 guys are limited on main bearings

For the oil, Amsoil Z-Rod 10W-30 after the Break-in oil is done.

Half-groove main bearings are going into my current 383 build with standard-volume oil pump, six-pack high pressure spring, and 402 oil pan to round out the stock oil system.

LINK: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/kgb-mb555hp

 

[wyrmrider]

if you get snow rethink that 10w in winter