northerndave
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I'm diggin it Prop!!
Awesome!!
Awesome!!
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Propwash
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Thanks Dave......Again, glad to have ya here
I had a couple guys PM on me with a bunch of questions for my outer wheelhouse replacements. I figured it would be a bunch easier to reply by just posting here. Hope this helps guys.
I cut right along the panel before the rise avoiding drilling out spot welds mainly because Mopar did not hold back on joining the outer to inner wheelhouse. I would say there is a weld pretty much almost every 1/8" to 3/16" of an inch. Way too time consuming to drill all out and I would just end up with a mangled lip to rejoin the two.
The front 18" does not have a raised edge so I used tape to use as a guide line for my cut.
There is 3 to 4 spot welds that join the outer wheelhouse to the rocker which will need to be drilled out. Tenderly continue your cut for outer wheelhouse removal. Use a cutting wheel and be careful not to cut through the trailing edge of the rocker
To drill out, hit with a center punch then use a decent spot weld removal bit. The one I use from Blair Tool in Michigan (which Matt so kindly recommended), works excellent! It has a spring loaded pilot and the bit chews through metal like a champ.
When I got those spot welds drill out, I cut around the large torque box and the small rear one to remove the bulk of material. To remove the rest of metal in those areas you'll have to use a cutting wheel from inside the wheelwell. Again, be careful to just cut through the old outer wheelwell material and not through the bottom of the torque box. There is also spot welds on both torque box attachments that will need to be drilled out.
Take your new panel and a good body saw and cut along same ridge. For the front area that does not have the ridge, take the old piece and trace the outline of your cut. I'm always a bit generous on leaving a bit extra metal on a cut like that. It may need to be trimmed but it is a whole lot easier than if you take too much metal off
Once you are completed with the daunting task of fitting up, which usually involves putting in place, trimming, putting in place, trimming, and so on, start making your small tack's to secure. The metal is still thin enough where I wouldn't recommed a continuous welds, but overlapping tack's. Make one tack, move 3-4 inches, do another and so on. Be sure to let the panel/weld area cool before starting over again
After completing your welds, flaten them out a bit with a grinder or small stone bit to eliminate any pits or divets that could hold settling dirt/moisture down the road. I treated the heat affected zone, weld, and known corrosion areas with rust bullet. Be sure to blast, wirewheel or sand any other areas that have light surface rust before applying the rust bullet or what ever product you use. I will also coat the area with 3M rubberized undercoating to level out and protect the area even more. Also, I did not have a pic for drilling new holes in the front of the outer wheelwell where it lines up with the rocker due to the fact I need to replace my whole rocker. Just pre drill 3-4 1/4" to 5/16" holes that will line up with the trailing edge of the rocker and fill. You will obviusly need to weld in the drilled out spot welds in the two torque box areas as well.
Since I had a bit more time today, I also coated the trunk pan to inner wheelhouse seam with rust bullet again since it is all welded up now. Once cured I will use 3M brushable seam sealer in this area to keep dust, dirt, moisture out just like the factory did. I also painted the inside of the rear crossmember, bottom area of trunk pan where it secures on, and the ends of the frame rails/ shackle mounts with rust bullet, since this is definitly an area where these cars love to rot out
I also got a chance to remove the rear windshield. The car has the glued in style mounting with the lovely black tar goo. Against all my better judgement, I went to Harbor Freight to buy this winshield removal tool. I couldn't find on anywhere else...If it breaks, screw it, i'm out 12 bucks. Anyway, it comes with 2 T-Handels a bunch of brass wire, and a slim jim type tool to push the wire from one side of the windshield to the other.
I ended up not using the little slim jim tool, but was able to pry the rear windshield up just enough with a trim removal tool to push half of a 5 foot long hunk of brass wire through
Once the wire is through the inside and outside, slide the wires into your T-Handles and secure. You will obviously need 2 people for this technique. When you start pulling the wire around the window seal, be sure to pull in a manner both people pull the wire along as flat to the window as possible. This will reduce the chance to get snagged up on the cars metal under the glue strip and the trim clips if you haven't removed them yet. Once all the way around, have the person inside gently press out at the top of the window tilting out, while being held by the person outside. Get both parties then to remove the window completly by tilting to about 45-65 degrees then lifting up. Good luck!
Time to end this novel...Hope everyones elses projects are going great, and talk at you folks soon!
I had a couple guys PM on me with a bunch of questions for my outer wheelhouse replacements. I figured it would be a bunch easier to reply by just posting here. Hope this helps guys.
I cut right along the panel before the rise avoiding drilling out spot welds mainly because Mopar did not hold back on joining the outer to inner wheelhouse. I would say there is a weld pretty much almost every 1/8" to 3/16" of an inch. Way too time consuming to drill all out and I would just end up with a mangled lip to rejoin the two.
The front 18" does not have a raised edge so I used tape to use as a guide line for my cut.
There is 3 to 4 spot welds that join the outer wheelhouse to the rocker which will need to be drilled out. Tenderly continue your cut for outer wheelhouse removal. Use a cutting wheel and be careful not to cut through the trailing edge of the rocker
To drill out, hit with a center punch then use a decent spot weld removal bit. The one I use from Blair Tool in Michigan (which Matt so kindly recommended), works excellent! It has a spring loaded pilot and the bit chews through metal like a champ.
When I got those spot welds drill out, I cut around the large torque box and the small rear one to remove the bulk of material. To remove the rest of metal in those areas you'll have to use a cutting wheel from inside the wheelwell. Again, be careful to just cut through the old outer wheelwell material and not through the bottom of the torque box. There is also spot welds on both torque box attachments that will need to be drilled out.
Take your new panel and a good body saw and cut along same ridge. For the front area that does not have the ridge, take the old piece and trace the outline of your cut. I'm always a bit generous on leaving a bit extra metal on a cut like that. It may need to be trimmed but it is a whole lot easier than if you take too much metal off
Once you are completed with the daunting task of fitting up, which usually involves putting in place, trimming, putting in place, trimming, and so on, start making your small tack's to secure. The metal is still thin enough where I wouldn't recommed a continuous welds, but overlapping tack's. Make one tack, move 3-4 inches, do another and so on. Be sure to let the panel/weld area cool before starting over again
After completing your welds, flaten them out a bit with a grinder or small stone bit to eliminate any pits or divets that could hold settling dirt/moisture down the road. I treated the heat affected zone, weld, and known corrosion areas with rust bullet. Be sure to blast, wirewheel or sand any other areas that have light surface rust before applying the rust bullet or what ever product you use. I will also coat the area with 3M rubberized undercoating to level out and protect the area even more. Also, I did not have a pic for drilling new holes in the front of the outer wheelwell where it lines up with the rocker due to the fact I need to replace my whole rocker. Just pre drill 3-4 1/4" to 5/16" holes that will line up with the trailing edge of the rocker and fill. You will obviusly need to weld in the drilled out spot welds in the two torque box areas as well.
Since I had a bit more time today, I also coated the trunk pan to inner wheelhouse seam with rust bullet again since it is all welded up now. Once cured I will use 3M brushable seam sealer in this area to keep dust, dirt, moisture out just like the factory did. I also painted the inside of the rear crossmember, bottom area of trunk pan where it secures on, and the ends of the frame rails/ shackle mounts with rust bullet, since this is definitly an area where these cars love to rot out
I also got a chance to remove the rear windshield. The car has the glued in style mounting with the lovely black tar goo. Against all my better judgement, I went to Harbor Freight to buy this winshield removal tool. I couldn't find on anywhere else...If it breaks, screw it, i'm out 12 bucks. Anyway, it comes with 2 T-Handels a bunch of brass wire, and a slim jim type tool to push the wire from one side of the windshield to the other.
I ended up not using the little slim jim tool, but was able to pry the rear windshield up just enough with a trim removal tool to push half of a 5 foot long hunk of brass wire through
Once the wire is through the inside and outside, slide the wires into your T-Handles and secure. You will obviously need 2 people for this technique. When you start pulling the wire around the window seal, be sure to pull in a manner both people pull the wire along as flat to the window as possible. This will reduce the chance to get snagged up on the cars metal under the glue strip and the trim clips if you haven't removed them yet. Once all the way around, have the person inside gently press out at the top of the window tilting out, while being held by the person outside. Get both parties then to remove the window completly by tilting to about 45-65 degrees then lifting up. Good luck!
Time to end this novel...Hope everyones elses projects are going great, and talk at you folks soon!
detmatt1
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Nice work Prop, you make it look easy.
Propwash
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Thanks Matt....It really isn't too hard of a job. With the nice stamps AMD makes on the outers, fit up was a breeze.
morbidgoat
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looking good prop do you have a projected timeline of when you plan on haveing the metal work done and ready to start bodywork
northerndave
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very nice work. I used plain old mig welding wire to cur the back window out of a 68 coronet a couple of years ago. That was slow going but it did work.
this is fantastic work going on here and great pictures.
this is fantastic work going on here and great pictures.
Propwash
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Well I guess that's hard to say morbid.. When I first got her home I was shooting to have her painted before the snow started flying, but you know how that goes. I suppose it all depends on how the quarter panel installation goes. I gotta wrap up securing the rear crossmember tonight/tomorrow and the start the rocker panel replacement. After that, the quarters......I'm still shooting to have it ready for paint before the end of the year, but we'll see how that goes.
How's your GTX project going by the way? Any more progress? Must be nuts down in Oshkosh this week with the EAA going on. (especially by your work)
How's your GTX project going by the way? Any more progress? Must be nuts down in Oshkosh this week with the EAA going on. (especially by your work)
Propwash
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That's a good idea Dave...I suppose if a guy got in a pinch, wrap some MIG wire around a 1" wood dowel or something and go to town...
Thanks and glad you like the pic's....You gonna start moving on your Roadrunner resto soon? Any ideas on what you're gonna do with the paint job (try to save it or repaint)?
northerndave
Well-Known Member
Oh the bird is going to be a repaint for sure, not a rotisserie job but I'll pull at least the front & rear glass, rip off the vinyl top, fix any pitting/pinholes under there. Sand the whole car bare on the outside with my big 8" sander, it needs trunk floor center over the fuel tank, left and right trunk to 1/4 extentions, needs a 1/4 repair skin on the drivers side, possibly just front & rear lower repair panels for passenger side and I need to repair drivers side inner wheel house from what I suspect was a tire incodent. like the face came off a tire at a high tate of speed & slapped/hooked the wheel house in back, screwed it up. That forward corner of the fuel tank is beat up too, it really looks like the drivers rear tire exploded.
my interior is decent except for headliner and I have a new one already. the white vinyl top is going back on and I've narrowed my color choices down to either the original T7 bronze or something like this burnt orange which I think would look good with my tan interior and white top.
please ignore the machine, the color is what i'm trying to show here & this is what i came up with lol!
my interior is decent except for headliner and I have a new one already. the white vinyl top is going back on and I've narrowed my color choices down to either the original T7 bronze or something like this burnt orange which I think would look good with my tan interior and white top.
please ignore the machine, the color is what i'm trying to show here & this is what i came up with lol!
Propwash
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That thing is sweet! I don't know if the Ski-Doo would allow a Polaris in the garage next to it, but man that would be fun to take that out for a spin!! The color is great!! Almost looks like (dare I say it) Hugger Orange. Sounds like you got your plans in order for the resto of your bird. Can't wait to see it rolling on here.
Where you at over in Minnesota Dave? Up in the Iron Range? I'm over toward the Green Bay area in Wisconsin....Please no Vikings/Farve talk......LOL
Take care!
Where you at over in Minnesota Dave? Up in the Iron Range? I'm over toward the Green Bay area in Wisconsin....Please no Vikings/Farve talk......LOL
Take care!
northerndave
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oh god don't worry about me turning anything into a football conversation lol!!
I'm over in lake of the woods area in far northern MN. West of iron range, north & west actually.
I hung a bunch of new tin on a 68 coronet not too long ago. I did quarter skins, trunk extantions, dicected a good trunk center out of a donor car & transplanted it, front floor pans...
the quarter skins turned out good the way I did it but I think I want to try a little different method this time with mine. On my buddy's car I cut from the back of the door to the tailpan on the quarter side about 1/2" below the top bend which was like 90 degree or better bend on the dodge.
then I left the replacement skin panel about 3/8" long at the fitment point & flanged it full length. I tucked the flanged edge up under the cut edge, tacked & stitched it full length.
It was pretty good, did both sides that way but if I do skins in my bird I think I want to join panels up top, above the top bend rather than down the side of that long panel... does that make sense?
how does the rest of the B-body world do it?
as a rule?
I'm over in lake of the woods area in far northern MN. West of iron range, north & west actually.
I hung a bunch of new tin on a 68 coronet not too long ago. I did quarter skins, trunk extantions, dicected a good trunk center out of a donor car & transplanted it, front floor pans...
the quarter skins turned out good the way I did it but I think I want to try a little different method this time with mine. On my buddy's car I cut from the back of the door to the tailpan on the quarter side about 1/2" below the top bend which was like 90 degree or better bend on the dodge.
then I left the replacement skin panel about 3/8" long at the fitment point & flanged it full length. I tucked the flanged edge up under the cut edge, tacked & stitched it full length.
It was pretty good, did both sides that way but if I do skins in my bird I think I want to join panels up top, above the top bend rather than down the side of that long panel... does that make sense?
how does the rest of the B-body world do it?
as a rule?
northerndave
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hey tell me about this "rust bullet"? is that an eastwood product or??
Propwash
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Ah, Lake of the Woods..Beautiful area! Great Perch and Walleye fishing up that way.
I don't think there is any rule of thumb for skin replacement. The route you went with sounds pretty typical and it sounds like you really know what you are doing. I know a lot of folks that flange on the side, flange the old material side on the upper half so there isn't an edge dirt/ moisture can settle on. I guess it's a preference if you want to go with a flanged fit up vs. butt weld. I've never tried fit up above the the top body line. I think a couple reasons you don't see that done much is A) with a fit up on the side of the body, you'll have more surface area to feather in the old skin to the new, especially if you get a bit hot with the welder and put some warp in the panel. B) A lot of new skins only have 1-2" of the top of the panel (most areas requiring the new panel for repair are in the lower area of the old panel), limiting fit up if car geometry hampers with curves, corners. Just a couple reasons I've heard of in the past. Never seen or tried joining up top myself, so I honestly can't say. Hell, whatever works for ya, i'd say go with it! A lot of new car MFG's and also a majority of body shops go with the panel bonding adhesive (like 3M or SEM). It fills in the flange space, thus reducing the area open to atmosphere/oxidation. The risk of warpage due to welding is minimized, and it is less time consuming.
As far as Rust Bullet. It is a product like POR 15. I personally think it works much better. I've used it for years now with great results. It can be brushed, rolled, or sprayed on and is completly sandable/paintable. It converts oxidation to a hardened solid that becomes part of the coating. It also inhibits rust from forming as well as encapsulating. Guaranteed not to rust for 10 years in all conditions. Started seeing it in the automotive world back in the 90's. I first used it in the Air Force with our F-15's on certain internal components with great resolve. Started seeing in more and more at body shop's and other classic car ownwers rides after that. Now I see it commercially at power plants, paper mills, refineries, shipyards, and structually. It is just amazing what the stuff holds up to in all the enviroments i've seen it in.
I don't know if Eastwood sells it or not, but it is not made by them. I go right to the Manufacturer to buy it (rustbullet.com). The stuff is not cheap (around 50 bucks a quart shipped), but you get what you pay for. One thing about it is if you get it on your skin, be prepared to wear it for a week or two...It does not come off with anything.
I don't think there is any rule of thumb for skin replacement. The route you went with sounds pretty typical and it sounds like you really know what you are doing. I know a lot of folks that flange on the side, flange the old material side on the upper half so there isn't an edge dirt/ moisture can settle on. I guess it's a preference if you want to go with a flanged fit up vs. butt weld. I've never tried fit up above the the top body line. I think a couple reasons you don't see that done much is A) with a fit up on the side of the body, you'll have more surface area to feather in the old skin to the new, especially if you get a bit hot with the welder and put some warp in the panel. B) A lot of new skins only have 1-2" of the top of the panel (most areas requiring the new panel for repair are in the lower area of the old panel), limiting fit up if car geometry hampers with curves, corners. Just a couple reasons I've heard of in the past. Never seen or tried joining up top myself, so I honestly can't say. Hell, whatever works for ya, i'd say go with it! A lot of new car MFG's and also a majority of body shops go with the panel bonding adhesive (like 3M or SEM). It fills in the flange space, thus reducing the area open to atmosphere/oxidation. The risk of warpage due to welding is minimized, and it is less time consuming.
As far as Rust Bullet. It is a product like POR 15. I personally think it works much better. I've used it for years now with great results. It can be brushed, rolled, or sprayed on and is completly sandable/paintable. It converts oxidation to a hardened solid that becomes part of the coating. It also inhibits rust from forming as well as encapsulating. Guaranteed not to rust for 10 years in all conditions. Started seeing it in the automotive world back in the 90's. I first used it in the Air Force with our F-15's on certain internal components with great resolve. Started seeing in more and more at body shop's and other classic car ownwers rides after that. Now I see it commercially at power plants, paper mills, refineries, shipyards, and structually. It is just amazing what the stuff holds up to in all the enviroments i've seen it in.
I don't know if Eastwood sells it or not, but it is not made by them. I go right to the Manufacturer to buy it (rustbullet.com). The stuff is not cheap (around 50 bucks a quart shipped), but you get what you pay for. One thing about it is if you get it on your skin, be prepared to wear it for a week or two...It does not come off with anything.
wingcarenvy
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Nicely done propwash, even though I am going through the same rebuild on a mod top Satellite, I am in awe of your work! Keep it up. Oh and by the way I had to take a cut off wheel to the seam of that damn outer wheel house, it seems as though its a different kind of spot weld. Looks like a square spot weld that is pretty much end to end.
morbidgoat
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ya i know what you mean about finish dates getting pushed back i was really expecting to have mine painted during the week after the 4th (we have that week off every year) the only progress ive had is blocking and primering however that being said i MIGHT be spraying the whole body minus the hood in the orange this coming weekend then coming back the following weekend to spray my stripe design
as for oshkosh let me put it this way im only leaving the house to go to and from work but its always crazy here when you've got people from all over the world coming to one city for a giant air show
Propwash
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Thanks Wingcarenvy....That whole square style spotweld almost completly stitched together is nuts isn't it? How the heck would a guy reasonably get all of those out without destroying the integrity of that lip? I can't speak for my Coronet and those St. Louis builders, but it seams the guys went Ape with the spot welder down at Lynch Road.
Morbid....Be sure and toss up some pick's of that bad boy once you get her sprayed. Pretty interested in seeing your custom hood stripes you got in the mix.. Saw EAA on the news last night. Looks like half the campers have their RV's stuck in the mud, the rest camping on black top parking lots.........Sounds like a lot of fun!
roadrunnerman
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hey prop,i can't believe how much you've got done so far,but i know you;ve got more to go,that's why i'm enjoying every bit of this step by step.
Propwash
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Glad you're enjoying the thread roadrunnerman, and you are definitly right, sure got a bunch more to go! By the time I get this bird back on the road we're going to end up with a 50 page thread...LOL. Should have named the thread " Tactical Guide to Rust Belt Restoration" or "The Book of Oxidation Elimination."
I did get my rear crossmember tacked on and i'll toss up some pic's soon. I'm planning on starting the full rocker panel replacement here in the next couple days.Stay tuned, it's gonna be a blast.......well, probably not, but i'll be tossing up some pic's anyways!
Also need some opinions from you guys........Looking forward (far forward!), i'm putting a vinyl top back on the car. I'm the kind of cat that likes to do things myself and was sporting the idea of doing it myself. Been reading threads here and other places like Mopar Muscle to get an idea on how to install and it seems like kinda of a one shot deal to put them on. Obviously there are things on this car already I've had no experience doing in the past and have grab the bull by the horns and got it done, but the vinyl is pretty much going to be one of the final delicate touches and i'm kinda freaking out about ending up with wrinkles, slack, misalignment, glue all over, or the glue setting before in place due to the fact I might be working a bit too slow being cautious in all. The place that will be redoing my seat covers and headliner also installs vinyl tops for $375. Any of you guys installed one before? Is it something not that hard i'm just wasting time freaking out about, or is it something a guy would just shell over the cash and have the proffesionals deal with?
Thanks guys
I did get my rear crossmember tacked on and i'll toss up some pic's soon. I'm planning on starting the full rocker panel replacement here in the next couple days.Stay tuned, it's gonna be a blast.......well, probably not, but i'll be tossing up some pic's anyways!
Also need some opinions from you guys........Looking forward (far forward!), i'm putting a vinyl top back on the car. I'm the kind of cat that likes to do things myself and was sporting the idea of doing it myself. Been reading threads here and other places like Mopar Muscle to get an idea on how to install and it seems like kinda of a one shot deal to put them on. Obviously there are things on this car already I've had no experience doing in the past and have grab the bull by the horns and got it done, but the vinyl is pretty much going to be one of the final delicate touches and i'm kinda freaking out about ending up with wrinkles, slack, misalignment, glue all over, or the glue setting before in place due to the fact I might be working a bit too slow being cautious in all. The place that will be redoing my seat covers and headliner also installs vinyl tops for $375. Any of you guys installed one before? Is it something not that hard i'm just wasting time freaking out about, or is it something a guy would just shell over the cash and have the proffesionals deal with?
Thanks guys
northerndave
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hmm... I'm in the same boat as you with the vinyl top on my 69 RR. I guess if I had a local shop that would do it for 375... is that price including the top itself too?
I dunno, I might farm that job out if I can get it done for 375.
That and any glass that's urethane fit. I do the gasket fit glass but I like to leave the "glued in" jobs to the windshield pros.
Like you I'm not afraid to learn to put a vinyl top on but if the price is right for having an experienced person do it for me I might consider it.
I dunno, I might farm that job out if I can get it done for 375.
That and any glass that's urethane fit. I do the gasket fit glass but I like to leave the "glued in" jobs to the windshield pros.
Like you I'm not afraid to learn to put a vinyl top on but if the price is right for having an experienced person do it for me I might consider it.
morbidgoat
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i personally havent put any on however i know my father has. ill be seeing him this weekend ill try to remember to ask him about it
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