fresh 440 build has 90 lbs of oil pressure at idle

[RJRENTON]

Been designing fluid transfer and hydraulic systems for 35 years

FYI...I've also been designing high temp heat transfer systems: gas to gas, gas to liquid, and liquid to liquid systems for 30+ years also fluid transfer systems for chemical plants and steel industries all involving specifying, selecting, installing and start up of all eauipment.
Bob Renton

 

[BSB67]

FYI...I've also been designing high temp heat transfer systems: gas to gas, gas to liquid, and liquid to liquid systems for 30+ years also fluid transfer systems for chemical plants and steel industries all involving specifying, selecting, installing and start up of all eauipment.
Bob Renton

But you're confused on the correct application of something as elementary as Boyles law. Honestly, I'm at a loss for words.,othere than going back to my original opening sentence.

 

[andyf]

according to the build seet..

Melling HV63 Hi Vol oil pump

You should probably put a std vol pump on there. Or just change the spring. We almost always need to play with the spring to get the correct pressure in new engines. For most street performance big blocks the best solution is the standard pump with a standard spring that has one or two shims behind it. Sometimes you need the black spring in the standard pump and sometimes with really loose engines we'll use the HV pump. It depends on clearances and viscosity but most street engines are fine with the standard pump and spring.

 

[dvw]

The only time you need more volume is when adding spring pressure to the relief valve wont produce the volume to make a desired pressure reading. The pressure number is really telling us about flow vs clearance. Many years we've been taught 10 psi/1000 rpm gives a flow number that keeps most engines happy. Can this number be lower? Yes if you want to experiment. However, most of us here dont build enough engines to get enough feedback on what is safe. Personally my BB race motor runs 65-70 psi@7200 (depending on oil temp) with 5w30 JR1 oil with no issue. .0025"-.0027" rod, .0032"-.0034" mains, . 0025" lifter bore clearance (sloppy), push rod oil w/.050" restriction. High volume pump with 1 1/2 coils clipped from the black spring.
Doug

 

[jprather]

well, I'm still waiting on builder to respond.. this happened friday afternoon, I have texted and emaile dhim, fri, sat , mon and today.. if no response by tuesday .. I will post shop info

 

[YY1]

I wonder if he's on vacation for the 4th

this holiday has kind of snuck up on me.


could you try the pump off your 400?

 

[jprather]

never really thought about the 4th !,, I just baught a new melling standard volume pump

 

[Challenger340]

I don't really understand why it was built with an HV Oil Pump anyways ?
What I mean is this....
according to the spec sheet you posted, it is basically a "rebuilder" style stock 440 engine, that appears to have had some requests added on like the ARP Bolts, Big Cam and Torker Intake ?
Other than that.... it's basically a rebuilder dunk/bore & Hone/reassemble job ? Balancing thrown in for good measure I guess ?

Just say'in here... and again here, just my opinion
this is not a blueprint style performance build Engine, where relationships between Parts fitting called "clearances" are set, then re-checked, and a spec sheet is then provided ?

I would sure like to know what PISTONS were used with those Total Seal Moly Rings ?
Because IMO,
that would be very telling as to what the builder thought he was building ?.... beyond the XE284 Big Cam "sound" and the Torker Intake "visual" ?

WHO suggested ? or conversely requested ? the Cam, Intake, ARP Bolts, HV Oil Pump, and Balancing on this Engine build ?
You ? or the Builder ?
WHO supplied those Parts ??????????????

spec sheet
seasoned 440 block- baked and shot blasted, checked for damage, cleaned , bored .30 over and honed for molly rings, all threads chased
new cam bearings , freeze plugs / galley plugs/distib bushing,
total seal molly rings,
clevite 77 bearings for street use
crank inspected/cut/or polished. galley holes chamfered , rods resized and arp bolts installed
reciprocating assbly balanced
melling HI Vol oil pump
comp cams extreme engery hyd cam and lifrt kit 284/296 and 5.11 kift
avon double roller timing kit
mp hardened oil pump/ disribt drive
problem solver rear main seal
fel pro gasket set
cast iron heads w hard seat.. baked , shot blasted, guides installed , 3 angle valve job, edlebrock springs, locks, retainers, pc seals - set to cam
hd hydrolic rockers and shafts
now 440 source hydrolic push rods
edlebrock torker intake
alum water pump housing/pump combo
recon balancer, mp elec. dist, fully assb. new grade 8 hardware,
pre primed and ready to install

 

[jprather]

great comment YY,
i skiped the line on pistons..
Keith black #187 .30 step pistons w/ 1.09 pins ( 10.4 comp w 88cc heads )

builder speced and supplied all parts

 

[Challenger340]

great comment YY,
i skiped the line on pistons..
Keith black #187 .30 step pistons w/ 1.09 pins ( 10.4 comp w 88cc heads )

builder speced and supplied all parts

That's what I wanted to hear !
Then you have every right to demand he make things right with this Engine, including any Oil Pressure issues.

 

[jprather]

if he will ever answer me !, he is almost 3 hours away also

 

[YY1]

I wonder if an oil passage or plug got left out, drilled or not drilled or put in the wrong place or an oil hole in a bearing or gasket did not line up.

In any event, that guy should stand behind his work.

 

[jprather]

big red flag.. when i first went down, it would not build oil pressure, there were no galley plugs put in behind the water pump housing, he said machine shaop was supposed to put them in and he never checked behind them. But I am way to trusting

 

[YY1]

AHA!

from no psi to over psi...

...all before and after installing plugs

a dollar says one was put in wrong.

 

[YY1]

You can probably find the info online as to where they are or aren't supposed to go.

I wonder, however if any other plugs got left out.

It's been quite some time since I was involved in building/rebuilding any engines-

I believe I got all that info from the Larry Shepard big block book.

 

[jprather]

Well. Changed to melling standard volume pump.. oil.pressure 60 at cold idle.. 25 at hot idle. And 55 to 60 at hot rpm. Pulled the spring out of the old oump.. high pressure. Switch is jammed it and wont come out..

 

[1967coronet]

Well. Changed to melling standard volume pump.. oil.pressure 60 at cold idle.. 25 at hot idle. And 55 to 60 at hot rpm. Pulled the spring out of the old oump.. high pressure. Switch is jammed it and wont come out..

That is good pressure. Sounds like you got it.

 

[Bobby Sixkiller]

The builder should still compensate you for it.

 

[Wietse]

Well. Changed to melling standard volume pump.. oil.pressure 60 at cold idle.. 25 at hot idle. And 55 to 60 at hot rpm. Pulled the spring out of the old oump.. high pressure. Switch is jammed it and wont come out..

Good find, at least there is some certainty of what caused it.

But to get back on the oil pump discussion, just for something to learn here for me:
A high volume oil pump should be used in say a race engine that was build with higher then normal bearing clearances right?
The increase in oil volume discharged by the pump is there only to overcome the additional oil flow that comes out of the bearings.
This increase in bearing clearance is there to make additional space for metal expansion due to high heat occurring when racing a the engine.
So installing a HV pump on a "stock" style or street/strip (not race) type engine would be not useful at all as the bearing clearances were not increased.
Running a HV oil pump, and installing a lighter spring only appears to me as a waste of energy as all the extra volume is thrown back to the sump and also causes more friction which increases unnecessary heat.
All in all, not a smart move to install an oil pump like that on a stock-ish engine by someone who says he is a professional engine rebuilder...

 

[miller]

Pulled the spring out of the old oump.. high pressure. Switch is jammed it and wont come out..

By 'switch', assuming you mean relief valve.
There was your problem. No pressure relief...oil pressure too high, rubber seals getting blown out.
I'd also bet...at first, with no oil pressure...relief valve was jammed OPEN. Barn door got slammed shut, closed, and jammed in place.

Builder's fault 100%! Slapping crap together.

Even I'm dumb enough, with a new oil pump, to tear it down, look and make sure things are okay.