Fresh 727 leaking oil from the inspection plate?

[Malicious]

Hi all,

This is my first auto, couldn't afford to go manual yet, so I've just started up my coronet, sorted the break in and basic tune and turned to sorting out the tranny.

Manual says that it should take about 8.5 liters, I had 4lt in it showing full so we started moving through the gears with some revs to get fluid pumping through the system (fresh build). Topped it up a few times and got the auto engaging drive and finally reverse.

I had a mate over to help, he sorted the fluid situation while I sorted out the throttle linkages - had a few issues.

After we finally got fluid going through and reverse started going, I noticed auto fluid coming from the front of the trans at the bottom of the bell housing.

I checked the dip stick and it's showing over full.

I'm assuming the fluid is coming from the front seal and I'm hoping it's from my dick of a mate over filling it. However, being my first auto, I wanted to ask you all.

One last fact, my mate was revving in gear and holding the breaks occasionally while revving to motivate the fluid into the converter. Not sure if this might have been a bad idea?

Thanks guys

 

[terzmo]

the converter should of had some trans fluid in it before installing.(I always put at least a qt. in) The converter will take alot of fluid to fill and a dry converter will do nothing until fluid is pumped there. Let it run in neutral at idle and get warm, then check level....If dry converter and trans....It will take at least 8 qts to get a reading when warm.

What type oil coming out of inspection plate area? Motor or trans fluid? IF motor oil, you may have a rear main seal on the engine issue.

 

[Malicious]

Thanks, didn't know about filling the converter before hand, which is why we were running it trying to get it to take more fluid.

The fluid is fresh clean auto oil, no engine oil. The only reason I'm not sure it's coming from the front trans seal is I have heard that there can be a pressure valve in a converter? I don't remember seeing one when installing but like I said first auto! So I'm not sure if my logic is right or there is some other possible auto magic mistake that cold of happened?

 

[Darter6]

There is also a vent at the top of the front pump.Fluid will come from there if the trans is over full.

 

[terzmo]

Thanks, didn't know about filling the converter before hand, which is why we were running it trying to get it to take more fluid.

The fluid is fresh clean auto oil, no engine oil. The only reason I'm not sure it's coming from the front trans seal is I have heard that there can be a pressure valve in a converter? I don't remember seeing one when installing but like I said first auto! So I'm not sure if my logic is right or there is some other possible auto magic mistake that cold of happened?

Type F transmission fluid goes in the tranny...not motor oil

 

[resq302]

I think he meant auto oil as in Automatic trans oil. (or at least I'm hoping....)

 

[miller]

If the trans is built right, simply let the motor idle, while slowly moving the shifter through the gears. It can take a few moments for the fluid (not oil!) to flow into the ports. Usually only takes a few minutes to get everything shifting right, IF all is good inside.

If fluid is over-filled, need to siphon/drain it out. You also get the correct level reading...after fluid is at temp.

 

[Malicious]

Yeah the leaking fluid is auto trans fluid/oil.

Drained out some fluid which has stopped the leak, the problem is now I have no movement in gear. Before it started leaking with "too much" fluid it was getting forward and reverse movement at the wheels (on axle stands), then it leaked, drained fluid to stop the leak (from over filling) now nothing.

Any thoughts? Tips ect?

- - - Updated - - -

Dipstick is showing enough fluid, about mid way.

 

[miller]

Don't know if it would make any dif...but, I'd put the thing on the ground.

If the trans is not shifting, probably means no fluid, or not enough at the shift body (and the valves). You know you only check auto trans fluid level, while the engine is idling??? Keep the fluid level at, or just under the full mark. When the converter, and trans body gets fluid, the level should go down some.
Again, at idle, slowly run the shifter through the gears. It might even take putting in (whatever) gear, and leave it there, waiting until you feel it shift. For any gear, for the first time, that fluid has to fill those particular ports, to the shift valve, and build enough pressure to shift the dang thing! It might take a few times on each gear, to get fluid where it needs to be. Of course...the pump has to actually PUMP.
Some are easy, some not, depending on who built the trans, and the condition of the parts and pieces.

If things don't happen, probably a problem inside.

 

[Badvert65]

I assume you are checking the fluid with the engine idling and the trans in Neutral (not in Park). If you over filled, I would let the car sit (not running) for a while. You could have created a lot of foamy, frothy fluid and this will cause problems unless you let it 'air out'.

 

[Malicious]

Just found some time to try this again. In neutral it was a little low, so I've topped it up, definitely not over full. Got movement back in the wheels. But sure enough I look under and it was leaking again.

Looks like it dropped the amount I put in. Once it finished leaking, the wheels stopped moving again.

So here it is, when overflowing (leaking) it engages. Not overflowing (no leaking), no engagement.

Any thoughts? Could I have the wrong auto fluid? The front seal is new from the tranny shop when they replaced the oil pump gear. Anything else I could be missing?

 

[miller]

What ATF fluid type are you using? Have my own evil thoughts on that one.

Stock pan, or deep? If deep, a pickup extender?

Without knowing what's in your build, hard to pick out, since so many 'modifications' can be done to a 727. Highly suggest getting into the service manual, auto trans trouble-shooting guide. At least that will give you some positive leads to look at. There's a chance a problem with the pump itself, or something in the shift body, both meaning digging back into the trans.
Start with the easy things to check first, and go from there. IF a 727 is put together right, bulletproof, if not...

When you broke in your motor...did you have fluid in the trans? Any rate, yeah, something's wrong.

 

[Malicious]

Stock pan, or deep? If deep, a pickup extender?

ARGH! This! I have swapped the pan for one with a drain plug, whats the bet its deeper! I'm such an idiot!

Thanks Miller!

 

[Malicious]

Confirmed. The new one is deeper. I'll change the pan over until I can get a pick up extender.

I'll come back with results soon

 

[Malicious]

Another question, I'm just thinking, if I swap back to the stock pan, aren't I just going to end up in the same place? Yes there will be less fluid but the level will be the same and I will face the same issue, fluid leaking when full enough to engage.

I'm thinking I'll need a deep pan with filter extension?

 

[miller]

If you bought that deep pan new, should have come with the extender.

What your probably looking at is...the fluid pickup wasn't allowing 'circulation', being too short. With the pump doing it's thing, the flow from the pump has to go 'somewhere'. But, the shift body wasn't getting it, or at least not enough, if any.

Cannot say for certain if anything has been hurt. Here's where you cross your fingers!! Pump, converter, and shift body all need that fluid circulation, since an auto trans is like a big hydraulic pump.

Whether a stock pan, or deep...put it together 'right', and try it. At this stage, it's worth a try. Hope all the higher RPM stuff didn't smoke anything in there. The trans spittin' fluid back out, was just talking to you. Happens to the best of anyone!

 

[miller]

Got that thing going, yet???

 

[Malicious]

Nup, I'm out of my depth now. Got the pick up lower and in the pan so it should be getting fluid now. Some thing that worries me was the amount of metallic in the bottom of the pan, very fine, like when you sand metal with a high grit paper.

Tried anyway cos if it's toast, I'm not gonna hurt it any more! Filled it up checked in neutral look like it needed more so I put some in it. Went through the gear. Leaked fluid again, I was hoping I'd over filled, but it didn't seam to matter. I had movement in neutral but in gear nothing. Starts to slow roll but as soon as you rev it the wheels stop.

I donno if it's toast or not but it might be time to take it to a specialist.

 

[Car Nut]

Have you checked the shifter seal for leaks, sounds like the same problem I had. The leak looked like a pan and/or front seal leak. When my trans was full, it leaked out of the seal if I let it sit.

 

[Malicious]

Do you mean the seal around the shaft that has the gear selector and kick down lever on it? If so, it's definitely not from there.

It's coming from inside the bell housing, I'm thinking it's either the front seal or the overflow valve.

Either way, it's either driving or pissing out fluid.