adk-roadrunner
Well-Known Member
so if I was to decide on the stock heads would upgrading to an aftermarket valve be a good idea or would the stock original valves and valve size be ok.
help me pick my engine parts for my 440 rebuild
- Thread starter adk-roadrunner
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RustyRatRod
Well-Known Member
The stock valve sizes will be fine. I would have the old ones magnafluxed though. Cheap insurance. But they are plenty big enough.
adk-roadrunner
Well-Known Member
ok sounds good my machinest charges 50.00 for the pair to clean and thoroughly check the heads I will probably have him install new springs when he reassembles them. I prolly can use them for a while and if I decide I wanna go another route im sure I could sell them for more than what I have invested in them. now forgive my ignorance on this question but I plan on reusing my original rocker assembly's when I change cam will I need to change any other components suck as lifters and pushrods. I am assuming if I go with a cam kit that comes with springs and lifters I will most certainly have to change pushrods.
RustyRatRod
Well-Known Member
The stock pushrods and rockers are plenty good to about .525 lift. After that, they should be upgraded. Let your machinist check them out. Stock rockers are cheap, so if any need replacing, don't panic. You need to remember though, there are right and left rockers. Right and left refers to the pushrod dimple offset in the rocker. Just look at them and you'll see the difference. Guess what? Summit is running a mega sale right now. They have a cam that would be really good for your motor. That's cam and lifters for 103 bucks.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-k6401/overview/make/dodge
That's cam and lifters. You can use the good old standby Comp 911-16 springs.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-911-16
They will work great. Summit might even have a comparable spring in their brand that's cheaper. That cam will pull great and idle nice and have probably 16 inches or more of vacuum in your 440. It'll have gobs of bottom end torque.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-k6401/overview/make/dodge
That's cam and lifters. You can use the good old standby Comp 911-16 springs.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-911-16
They will work great. Summit might even have a comparable spring in their brand that's cheaper. That cam will pull great and idle nice and have probably 16 inches or more of vacuum in your 440. It'll have gobs of bottom end torque.
The 440 source heads seam to perform good in the dyno tests that I have read, My only issue is they are Chinese. I had my 452's completely redone with 2.18 1.81 ferra valves, competition valve job, bronze guides, comp springs. retainers, etc. I ported them myself, when it was all said and done they flowed as well as the 440 source heads and unfortunetly cost nearly as much. Would I have been better off to just by them, probably but I know what I have, who did the work and my car is still made in the USA. I guess what I'm saying is rebuilding old heads that nead alot of TLC isn't cheap and if you don't mind Chinese parts it's a better route. I'll be buying Edelbrock heads if I ever have to do it again, they flow better and are made in the USA. Good Luck
adk-roadrunner
Well-Known Member
ive read edelbrock heads are cast in china as well ive been reading alot on them and from what I can tell they are cast in china and machined in the us. I could be wrong but this where all my research brought me. does anyone know if this is true sounds kinda funny to me.
RustyRatRod
Well-Known Member
Your 452 heads were cast in the United States of America. There's no doubt about that.
Sweet5ltr
Well-Known Member
Hey ADK-Roadrunner,
I went through the same ordeal, trying to decide if I wanted Stealths or Edelbrocks. I researched for quite some time on what was the best overall cylinder head for street use for the price. I went with the Performer RPMs. Yes, the chinese knockoff's called 'stealth heads' are cheaper, but by the time you replace parts you are nearly at the same overall price tag (also, they are around 20-30CFM off their advertised flow rates). Edelbrocks customer service is second to none, along with their warranty. We vote for products every time we click the 'buy now' icon on a website, and I could not see my hard earned dollars being placed in CHINESE goods unless absolutely necessary. I have replaced nearly EVERY 440 source product I have installed on my car, like the water pump and oil pan, because the quality was and is inferior to others I have used and I could even torque the oil pan to spec due to the inferior metal quality. I ran the E-Heads right out of the box, with factory pushrods and valvetrain with absolutely no problems. I now have switched to a solid camshaft and I am running the crane ductile iron adj. rockers and went with an off the shelf pushrod (9.25" length) and had once again, no problems. I drive the car nearly every day, just this last weekend I drove it to and from Daytona Beach which is 200 miles; getting around 12 MPG :headbang: Spend the extra money up front, buy the aluminum heads, go with around 10:1 compression vs. 9:1 with Iron, and have fun. I can't tell you how much better it looks to have aluminum heads under the hood other than old Irons.
You'll kick yourself later for spending a small fortune on Iron Heads that are comparable to Aluminum. Trust me, i've done it once and i'll never do it again..
If you go with the Edelbrocks, you'll have plenty of flow to make big power even at lower lift ranges. I would go with a .480-.525 lift camshaft, 110-112LSA, and mild duration. If you want to make good power, while on a street friendly valve train, I would check out the Comp XE275HL camshaft. It has a 2000-5800 RPM range, which would make right-off-idle power and make stump ripping torque. I had a 285' in the car, and it sounded like a radical solid lifter camshaft, but ran like a baby hydraulic. Smooth as glass with a 4-speed. My .590 solid really makes me want to switch to an Automatic sometimes, it isn't too fun in traffic...
I went through the same ordeal, trying to decide if I wanted Stealths or Edelbrocks. I researched for quite some time on what was the best overall cylinder head for street use for the price. I went with the Performer RPMs. Yes, the chinese knockoff's called 'stealth heads' are cheaper, but by the time you replace parts you are nearly at the same overall price tag (also, they are around 20-30CFM off their advertised flow rates). Edelbrocks customer service is second to none, along with their warranty. We vote for products every time we click the 'buy now' icon on a website, and I could not see my hard earned dollars being placed in CHINESE goods unless absolutely necessary. I have replaced nearly EVERY 440 source product I have installed on my car, like the water pump and oil pan, because the quality was and is inferior to others I have used and I could even torque the oil pan to spec due to the inferior metal quality. I ran the E-Heads right out of the box, with factory pushrods and valvetrain with absolutely no problems. I now have switched to a solid camshaft and I am running the crane ductile iron adj. rockers and went with an off the shelf pushrod (9.25" length) and had once again, no problems. I drive the car nearly every day, just this last weekend I drove it to and from Daytona Beach which is 200 miles; getting around 12 MPG :headbang: Spend the extra money up front, buy the aluminum heads, go with around 10:1 compression vs. 9:1 with Iron, and have fun. I can't tell you how much better it looks to have aluminum heads under the hood other than old Irons.
You'll kick yourself later for spending a small fortune on Iron Heads that are comparable to Aluminum. Trust me, i've done it once and i'll never do it again..
If you go with the Edelbrocks, you'll have plenty of flow to make big power even at lower lift ranges. I would go with a .480-.525 lift camshaft, 110-112LSA, and mild duration. If you want to make good power, while on a street friendly valve train, I would check out the Comp XE275HL camshaft. It has a 2000-5800 RPM range, which would make right-off-idle power and make stump ripping torque. I had a 285' in the car, and it sounded like a radical solid lifter camshaft, but ran like a baby hydraulic. Smooth as glass with a 4-speed. My .590 solid really makes me want to switch to an Automatic sometimes, it isn't too fun in traffic...
adk-roadrunner
Well-Known Member
hey rusty your right that is a good deal on that cam with lifters 103 bucks cant really go wrong think I may have to order that right up
RustyRatRod
Well-Known Member
If you think that cam will work for you, then no way in hell would I ever spend the jack for aluminum heads. You just won't need them at that power level. Total waste of money that could be spent elsewhere. In fact, I wouldn't even worry with porting.....although it would add to pretty significantly, again, as mild as that cam will make the engine, it's not necessary. SPend the money elsewhere......or save it up to upgrade to aluminum heads and better cam next time. So many ways to go about doing it. I would go mild NOW and get something on the road to have FUN with and go from there. You should be able to get those heads done for under 500 and you might even luck up finding a decent porter on the cheap if you call around. You never know.
SwedCharger67
Well-Known Member
I found this cam in my 383, and IMHO it requires a fairly high compression engine. My 383 was below 8 in static (too painful to tell you the dynamic...) and the engine wasn't fun at low revs, way too low dynamic compression and too low vacuum in my engine. It will probably do better in a bigger engine with higher comp.
Sweet5ltr
Well-Known Member
The camshaft is one of the most, if not, the most vital component of your engine for performance. Why go cheap and save a few bucks on something that may be in the car for years down the road. Call Comp or Lunati, tell them EXACTLY what you're looking for and get a camshaft that is profiled toward your goals. I like Mopar performance camshafts, and if you stick with the guidelines that are given by the Mopar Engine Manual you cannot go wrong. 9.0:1 Compression, 3.91 gears, 2800 stall, and you'll be set...
adk-roadrunner
Well-Known Member
ya I hear ya on the importance. I just got off the phone with the machine shop in my area I asked a few more questions about getting my heads worked on he said for cleaning bead blasting and crack checking its 50.00 then for the valve job its 100.00 and finally resurfacing is 80.00 these are all per pair prices and are contingent on no damage or damaged parts.
adk-roadrunner
Well-Known Member
so I brought my heads, block, rods and crank to the machine shop my guy said at first glance the cylinder's may not even need boring as there wasn't even really a lip in the cylinder's. I brought the new valve seals that came in my felpro gasket kit so he could use them when he rebuilt the heads he said he didnt use that type and he always upgrades the heads with new style seals. have you guys ever heard of this ? He is going to decide what needs to be done with the cylinders and let me know so I can order the pistons then he will match them with the bores. I was thinking about upgrading the rods to new bolts and he told me if I do it will be an additional $80.00 to have the bolts fitted and the rods resized he didn't seem to think it was important to replace them but said it was up to me and I'm not sure if I really need too. Im very excited I cant wait to hear back from him I hope everything checks out ok.
RustyRatRod
Well-Known Member
I think the rod bolt idea is a good one. While he's right that Chrysler rod bolt failure is rare, the additional insurance of good rod bolts is cheap. Don't skimp Buy ARP rod bolts.
Sounds like he's right on with valve seals. I never use the crappy ones in the gasket set either. He's probably gonna use Viton seals. I like his thinking on the bore, too. No need to hog it out if it's not necessary.
Sounds like he's right on with valve seals. I never use the crappy ones in the gasket set either. He's probably gonna use Viton seals. I like his thinking on the bore, too. No need to hog it out if it's not necessary.
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