Help! New 572 vibration at 3000 RPM

[2quick]

Fresh plugs going in now, going to check rotor phasing (I really hope that’s the problem) I may ohm out the wires even though they are pretty new and firecore 50’s. If that don’t help i don’t know!

 

[Runcharger]

If you have a heat gun you could just take the temp off each header pipe.

 

[Budnicks]

Just spitballing

was the engine assembly built by INDY supposed to be
an external balance ? not an internal balanced ?
or visa versa (INDY should have records of it)
Maybe;
got the wrong converter ?
wrong flexplate ?
or wrong harmonic dampener ? for the assembly

Converter ? it's not the same as you ran before, correct ?

1st, I'd suspect that stuff
wonder about the changes & obvious things 1st

PITA to change or check or to pull it now, or do a converter swap
maybe call Frank Lupo & see if it was "possibly" the wrong style converter
couldn't hurt, humans make errors
&/or call INDY (I hope they are better than 10 years now)
to see if it was supposed to be an external balance assembly
or visa versa (???)

I hope for your sake it's something simple
like a shitty coil, a shitty ignition/crossfire, shitty wires
or bad ignition box (or something in that area),
you know you have shitty plugs/change 1st,
maybe a shitty tune
causing a bad misfire, maybe some wire crossed or out of order... (????)

I've seen "new" wires & 'new' coils be junk out of the box too
do the basics 1st, compression, fuel, ignition
stuff you can see
Maybe also pull a valve cover or I'd say both
see if any rockers are really loose, yada yada yada
basics 1st

rotor phasing ? or something with the pickup

is the fuel old ?
I had a bad time with that on my car just a while back
the new fuels suck, don't have much of a shelf life, even good stuff

again just spitballing, throwing **** out there

Good luck

 

[Fran Blacker]

Like Budniks thoughts on convertor. Could there be a balance weight to heavy or one knocked off?

 

[493 Mike]

Any cushions between the motor plate and the frame rails? Is the trans mount solid or cushioned?
Mike

 

[2quick]

Any cushions between the motor plate and the frame rails? Is the trans mount solid or cushioned?
Mike

Yes I machined 3/8" off the bottom of motor plate and sandwiched 3/8' thick polyurethane cushions between the angles and frame, Then through bolted the whole thing.

 

[2quick]

Update

Replaced plugs
Checked firing order again
Swapped out cap for one with a hole in it to check rotor phasing. It was off a bit but still within reason, I dialed it in and locked it down.
Checked timing and pretty much locked at 35 all the way from idle to 4,000 (Didn't rev it higher but that's what the timing table calls for)
Still Vibrates

New Thoughts
When I installed the Jessel belt drive I lined up the dots on the cam gears on TDC of cylinder #1
Used a piston stop to verify TDC and set the pointer on the balancer
Degreed it to 109 IC using a Moroso Degree wheel and intake centerline method.
I noticed when I went to install distributor that when I rotated the engine and brought the Jessel logo so I could read it (Not upside down) and cam degree marks to the top of the upper cam gear I was not on TDC of the compression stroke for #1 (It was 180 out)!
So I took out he distributor, Jogged the motor over 180 and verified TDC on compression stroke and reinstalled distributor. It fired up, but I think the cam gear is still 180 out.
I read a set of BBC instructions that the marks should be lined up on TDC of #6 and not #1 (Cant seem to find specific instructions for BBM)
Is this a problem? Does the engine care?
Thoughts?

 

[PRHeads]

You cannot have the cam “180* out”.
Dot to dot on the timing set is number 6 firing, number 1 on overlap.
Rotate the crank one turn(Cam turns 180*, dots are now 12/12), thats number 1 firing, number 6 on overlap.

You can however have the distributor in 180* out, but the engine won’t run like that.

If you degreed the cam in properly, you’re good.

 

[451Mopar]

I had a vibration issue with my 499" B-block stroker. It was over balanced by 1 Ounce!
I think the machine shop mad an error in balancing. It was a new shop for me, and I didn't know it was a new guy who just bought someones elses shop, and likely he made a mistake?
Took the engine to a shop I had used several times before and they found the crank was overbalanced. removed the extra slug the other shop installed and all is fine now.

Might not be your issue, but might be worth double checking the balance with damper, flexplate, and converter.

 

[2quick]

You cannot have the cam “180* out”.
Dot to dot on the timing set is number 6 firing, number 1 on overlap.
Rotate the crank one turn(Cam turns 180*, dots are now 12/12), thats number 1 firing, number 6 on overlap.

You can however have the distributor in 180* out, but the engine won’t run like that.

If you degreed the cam in properly, you’re good

That's what I assumed but Why do the Jessel instructions say to line up Dot to Dot when #6 is at TDC which would be 180 on the balancer? I did not do this I aligned dots on #1 TDC.

 

[PRHeads]

If all the header temps are showing every cylinder is firing, then it’s unlikely a “tune” issue.

If it’s truly an “out of balance” condition, then where that problem stems from isn’t going to be that easy to isolate with the engine in the car.

I guess one simple test would be to remove the accessory drive belt and see if it goes away.

 

[PRHeads]

That's what I assumed but Why do the Jessel instructions say to line up Dot to Dot when #6 is at TDC which would be 180 on the balancer? I did not do this I aligned dots on #1 TDC.

View attachment 1521295

As I said, there is no such thing as the cam being 180* out.
If you properly degree the cam(degree wheel & pointer, cam follower, Finding true TDC, etc), you’ve eliminated all the variables associated with timing marks on the timing set.
(If you didn’t do it that way, then you don’t really know where the cam is)

Where Jesel is referring to the “key way” being straight up, that is referring to the key way between the sprocket and the hub. That is not the same as the “timing mark” on the sprocket.
In the pic you posted, the key way is at 12, but the cam timing mark is at 6.

 

[2quick]

As I said, there is no such thing as the cam being 180* out.
If you properly degree the cam(degree wheel & pointer, cam follower, Finding true TDC, etc), you’ve eliminated all the variables associated with timing marks on the timing set.

Where Jesel is referring to the “key way” being straight up, that is referring to the key way between the sprocket and the hub. That is not the same as the “timing mark” on the sprocket.
In the pic you posted, the key way is at 12, but the cam timing mark is at 6.

So the cam is not 180 out but the upper cam gear probably is, Which after it's degreed really doesn't matter. Correct?

 

[2quick]

What are the chances that INDY sent me an out of balance rotating assembly? Do they do their own balancing or did they buy it already balanced from Callie's and just give them the weights of the pistons and rods?

Only I can spend that kind of money and have this happen.....

 

[PRHeads]

One other thing, you said:

Why do the Jessel instructions say to line up Dot to Dot when #6 is at TDC which would be 180 on the balancer?

Number 1 and number 6 are both at TDC......when the damper is at “0”.

As for the balance question.......you’d have to ask Indy about who did it.

 

[2quick]

As I said, there is no such thing as the cam being 180* out.
If you properly degree the cam(degree wheel & pointer, cam follower, Finding true TDC, etc), you’ve eliminated all the variables associated with timing marks on the timing set.
(If you didn’t do it that way, then you don’t really know where the cam is)

Where Jesel is referring to the “key way” being straight up, that is referring to the key way between the sprocket and the hub. That is not the same as the “timing mark” on the sprocket.
In the pic you posted, the key way is at 12, but the cam timing mark is at 6.

Not trying to beat a dead horse but why make a reference to use #6 TDC instead of #1 for timing mark alignment? And If I didn't do that what are the consequences. Would it be that the upper cam gear is just upside down on #1 TDC cause that's what I got.

 

[Fran Blacker]

What are the chances that INDY sent me an out of balance rotating assembly? Do they do their own balancing or did they buy it already balanced from Callie's and just give them the weights of the pistons and rods?

Only I can spend that kind of money and have this happen.....

The "WHY does This Always Happen to ME!" syndrome.
Yes I'd be think it goes back to them and maybe to who supplied rotating assembly. Suckey luck.

 

[PRHeads]

This won’t be any help to you right now, but frankly......an engine like that really should have been on the dyno before going in the car.

Even if it was run with a std distributor and a carb.
At least then you can check for leaks, Valvetrain compatibility, overall performance and smoothness, properly seat the rings, etc.

Not trying to beat a dead horse but why make a reference to use #6 TDC instead of #1 for timing mark alignment? And If I didn't do that what are the consequences.

Because dot to dot is #6 firing, so you’d install the distributor with the rotor pointing towards #6.

If the timing set is dot to dot, and you install the distributor with the rotor pointing towards #1, the distributor is 180* out, and there should be a bunch of popping and banging out thru the throttle body/carb.

 

[2quick]

Like Budniks thoughts on convertor. Could there be a balance weight to heavy or one knocked off?

Neutral balance no weights and I called Proformance Transmission AKA Frank Lupo and he said that he hasn’t seen an out of balance converter in over 12 years and very highly doubts that’s the problem.

 

[2quick]

One other thing I noticed is the engine cranks extremely fast. Faster then any motor I’ve ever tried to start! Maybe I should throw a compression tester on it just to check?