How hot is too hot?

[snakeoil24]

Brains

All I know is, I've been building engines a LONG time. I've had some street driven engines that were in excess of 500 HP. I never had a problem with overheating. Not once. If you use the right parts and in general factory configuration, you won't be worryin about how many steam pockets you have, what kinda pressure differential the thermostat is makin or any of that other hocus pocus theorhetical physics horse hockey. It's really not that hard to build a car that doesn't overheat. All it takes is common sense.

it also took brains to design engines with Physics. But i guess you can try designing an engine with Horse hockey. Just let us all know how it looks.

 

[STREETREBEL]

You know he said he change the headers back to manifolds.
Maybe the water came out the head and when he replaced the
coolant he got a bubble in it.
Now that he flushed that radiator and added new coolant it's ok!
Just thinking out loud.:iamwithstupid:

 

[69Bee]

Does the boiling point of a coolant mixture truly dictate what the normal operating temperature should be? If I poured some other chemical into my coolant system that raised the boiling point say another 20 deg F, does that mean my engines normal operating temperature should also increase...

Actually, it does. If you read the service manual, it states that there should be a 50/50 mix of water and ethylyne glycol. That is because it raises the boiling point, and lowers the freezing point. Now, does it mean that it raises the normal operating point, no, it does not, and I never said it does. I merely corrected a posters comment on the boiling point.

These cars have many systems, and they were designed to give the best performance for that vehicle. Now, by changing this, or removing that, affects the related system, and it will not operate as designed.

You don't have to like or understand the science behind the development of cars, but you obviously appreciate it as you enjoy them.

 

[terzmo]

not that it's relevent but in the 50's and 60's it was a ritual to remove the thermostat in the late spring and re-install in early fall.(just like snow tires) Basicly a thermostat enables the car to warm up quicker so as the heater can blow warm air. NEW CARS ARE DIFFERENT....DON'T TRY IT ON A NEW ONE OR NEWER ONE. If you have a 180 thermostst and the car,for whatever reason,runs at 200...the stat will always be open. If You have a 195 stat and the car runs cool, the heat will eventually build up on a closed stat and it will open until temp goes below 195.

IF...225 is an ok temp to run on old iron.....why don't they have a 220 or 225 stat ?? Think about that one....

 

[63RedFury]

anything over 200 I get worried.I think 180-195 is good.

 

[terzmo]

:blob1:I totally agree

 

[67 B-body]

Actually, it does. If you read the service manual, it states that there should be a 50/50 mix of water and ethylyne glycol. That is because it raises the boiling point, and lowers the freezing point. Now, does it mean that it raises the normal operating point, no, it does not, and I never said it does. I merely corrected a posters comment on the boiling point.

These cars have many systems, and they were designed to give the best performance for that vehicle. Now, by changing this, or removing that, affects the related system, and it will not operate as designed.

You don't have to like or understand the science behind the development of cars, but you obviously appreciate it as you enjoy them.

First let me thank you for the observation regarding my enjoyment of these fine cars of years gone by... I love most all cool Muscle cars of the 50's, 60's and early 70's!!! My heart lies with the Mopar Super Stockers though...
Secondly,,, I actually do understand the science behind the cars and development,,,, as a matter of fact, I have a degree in it...LOL!
I first studied automotive engineering before expanding into Electrical engineering and eventually / primarily Robotic engineering.:grin:

 

[RustyRatRod]

it also took brains to design engines with Physics. But i guess you can try designing an engine with Horse hockey. Just let us all know how it looks.

I didn't say I disagreed with the horse hockey, just that if you use common sense and good parts, you don't have to WORRY about the horse hockey.

 

[terzmo]

First let me thank you for the observation regarding my enjoyment of these fine cars of years gone by... I love most all cool Muscle cars of the 50's, 60's and early 70's!!! My heart lies with the Mopar Super Stockers though...
Secondly,,, I actually do understand the science behind the cars and development,,,, as a matter of fact, I have a degree in it...LOL!
I first studied automotive engineering before expanding into Electrical engineering and eventually / primarily Robotic engineering.:grin:

what's the point ?? I've seen a "fish...bowl" and a House...fly.....and a kitchen....sink.....so what's that got to do with running a 60's car like it's a 1990 or newer....

 

[67 B-body]

Actually, it does. If you read the service manual, it states that there should be a 50/50 mix of water and ethylyne glycol. That is because it raises the boiling point, and lowers the freezing point. Now, does it mean that it raises the normal operating point, no, it does not, and I never said it does. I merely corrected a posters comment on the boiling point.

These cars have many systems, and they were designed to give the best performance for that vehicle. Now, by changing this, or removing that, affects the related system, and it will not operate as designed.

You don't have to like or understand the science behind the development of cars, but you obviously appreciate it as you enjoy them.

what's the point ?? I've seen a "fish...bowl" and a House...fly.....and a kitchen....sink.....so what's that got to do with running a 60's car like it's a 1990 or newer....

I'm not sure what that has to do with running a 60's car like it's a 1990 or newer????? LOL!....... I know I like them to run around 185... If others run them hotter and nothing bad results,,, then great... but if I'm ever in a position to give MY opinion.... it will be "keep it under 200* if at all possible.

 

[khryslerkid]

All I know is, I've been building engines a LONG time. I've had some street driven engines that were in excess of 500 HP. I never had a problem with overheating. Not once. If you use the right parts and in general factory configuration, you won't be worryin about how many steam pockets you have, what kinda pressure differential the thermostat is makin or any of that other hocus pocus theorhetical physics horse hockey. It's really not that hard to build a car that doesn't overheat. All it takes is common sense.

Back to the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

 

[RustyRatRod]

Back to the old saying "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

Purdy much.

 

[HT413]

The myth is that the speed of the coolant through the radiator is the problem. Its not some car craft article. Its physics and thermodynamics. Restrictors are not used to change the speed of the flow of coolant, they create a dynamic pressure in the engine above what the static pressure is set by the cap. Running a higher pressure cap with no restrictor will have the same effect. The point being that it is not the speed of the coolant, but the pressure its under. Which brings us back to the matter at hand, how is the cap on the car in question?

Despite what some 'automitive engineers' on this board might say, what you posted is thermodynamically correct. Bt lets look at the rest of the cycle (something you need to do in a closed system), I'll add this to your statement, after the coolant passes the tstat, the decrease in instantaneous pressure drops the coolant temp, thereby scrubbing heat and increasing the radiator's thermal efficiency. The water pump then repressurizes the mixture and the system goes on. Basic PV=nRT.

In a closed system you need to think of the whole cycle - the faster the coolant races through the motor, sure it takes out more heat, but now it races through the radiator faster so it is in thermal contact with less cfm of air so less heat is pulled from the coolant so more heat is returned to the engine via warm coolant and so the benefit is eliminated.

The location of that pressure differential is critical... ever wonder why the stat isnt placed directly after the radiator? Well prob not lol, but its for a very good thermodynamic reason.

No matter how smart you are, you're not smarter than a team of Chrysler automotive engineers who had decades of testing under their belts. I too have several engineering degrees so lets all play nice in the sandbox.:beerchug:

 

[khryslerkid]

69Bee mentioned "ethylyne glycol" Isn't that the old antifreeze? It had a kinda evaporative type of property to it if I remember. They sold it in quart cans, stopped using it like in the late sixty? Somebody jog my memory...

 

[khryslerkid]

Despite what some 'automitive engineers' on this board might say, what you posted is thermodynamically correct. Bt lets look at the rest of the cycle (something you need to do in a closed system), I'll add this to your statement, after the coolant passes the tstat, the decrease in instantaneous pressure drops the coolant temp, thereby scrubbing heat and increasing the radiator's thermal efficiency. Basic PV=nRT. In a closed system you need to think of the whole cycle - the faster the coolant races through the motor, sure it takes out more heat, but now it races through the radiator faster so it is in thermal contact with less cfm of air so less heat is pulled from the coolant so more heat is returned to the engine via warm coolant and so the benefit is eliminated.

The location of that pressure differential is critical... ever wonder why the stat isnt placed directly after the radiator? Well prob not lol, but its for a very good thermodynamic reason.

No matter how smart you are, you're not smarter than a team of Chrysler automotive engineers who had decades of testing under their belts. I too have several engineering degrees so lets all play nice in the sandbox.:beerchug:

Holy Cow! You sound like Marvin the Martian " Oh goodie! My eludium ph36 explosive space modulator!

Lord I apologise! I couldn't help myself lol. I get what you are stating. It's just way over most of our heads. Check your belt tension, make sure you coolant level is where it belongs and you should be good!

 

[HT413]

69Bee mentioned "ethylyne glycol" Isn't that the old antifreeze? It had a kinda evaporative type of property to it if I remember. They sold it in quart cans, stopped using it like in the late sixty? Somebody jog my memory...

Yup, modern antifreeze is propylene glycol cuz the old stuff evaporated (prob why it was shipped in sealed cans like you said) and didnt protect against corrosion very well. Oh and the ethylene stuff is far more toxic...

 

[HT413]

Holy Cow! You sound like Marvin the Martian " Oh goodie! My eludium ph36 explosive space modulator!

Lord I apologise! I couldn't help myself lol. I get what you are stating. It's just way over most of our heads. Check your belt tension, make sure you coolant level is where it belongs and you should be good!

Lol, sorry, tht rant wasnt refering to you. but for too many years i watched guys 'geek out' condesendingly too many times. Cant stand it, especially when the other guy is correct but may not (forgive me) be able to take it far enough to prove he's right. That sht gets me every time. Bragin bout brains is like braggin bout your height - some else gave em both to ya. Am i right?

 

[khryslerkid]

Thought so, about the ethylyne glycol. Thanks...

 

[khryslerkid]

Lol, sorry, tht rant wasnt refering to you. but for too many years i watched guys 'geek out' condesendingly too many times. Cant stand it, especially when the other guy is correct but may not (forgive me) be able to take it far enough to prove he's right. That sht gets me every time. Bragin bout brains is like braggin bout your height - some else gave em both to ya. Am i right?

You be right. I like to just stand back and let them "have at it" "I told you that pipe was hot!" Sometimes you just have to let them get burnt !

 

[67 B-body]

Lol, sorry, tht rant wasnt refering to you. but for too many years i watched guys 'geek out' condesendingly too many times. Cant stand it, especially when the other guy is correct but may not (forgive me) be able to take it far enough to prove he's right. That sht gets me every time. Bragin bout brains is like braggin bout your height - some else gave em both to ya. Am i right?

Well the other guy WASN'T right,,, actually you just re-explained my point of view. The difference in opinion was in regard to the comment of "coolant flowing too fast can not cause over heating"... Also to your comment of bragging,, it's not when you can simply explain that your knowledge comes from something other than chit chat on the WWW.... Referencing your education can sometimes provide a level of assurance to a OP regarding his or her question...
If I were to post a question on a medical forum trying to figure out if I have a cold or something else, the opinion from a Doctor would most likely stand out more than someone who new a person that said there friend "had the same thing".... If you have something to add that isn't with the intent to call someone out or attempt to diminish a persons character, then continue...
And before you try to say I did the same,,,, re- read.... I had NO intentions of placing personal attacks on anyone,, and made every attempt to reply with factual knowledge.... Not a slam to any one person, just a reply of difference in opinion.
That's all I have to say about that!!!