Hydro-boost questions (looking for data)

[64fury74charger]

I am following this thread and have considered putting hb on my Charger. I had a really nice 79 Lincoln Mark 5 with hb and it was really easy to control. For me it took a little time to get used to the pedal feel but no issues unless the engine shuts off.

 

[70chall440]

Oh I am definitely putting HB into this car, the question is how am I going to do it? Either I buy a complete system (~$1000) or I piece one together which is kind of the route I am on now.

 

[64fury74charger]

My general thinking is that it is important to have the hb unit and a pump that matches the pressure needed to operate properly. As long as those 2 pieces play nice together everything else is open to adapting to fitting the car or confined spaces as needed.

 

[Nxcoupe]

I used a mustang unit but not on a mopar. I'm in the process of 'dialing' it in. It's WAY too touchy right now. I'm going to step up to a 1.125 mc and rear disc brakes and see if that takes away some of the windshield face planting.

 

[dodgedifferent2]

Just to muddy the waters.

I do not have power steering and have been running my hydroboost straight from the Saginaw pump.
I stumbled on to electric power steering pumps from 04-13 Volvo s40.

Since I am doing a big block swap I plan to use the electric pump and hydroboost because big block will be on a motorplate.

 

[Kern Dog]

I used a mustang unit but not on a mopar. I'm in the process of 'dialing' it in. It's WAY too touchy right now. I'm going to step up to a 1.125 mc and rear disc brakes and see if that takes away some of the windshield face planting.

That was the thinking with the HB unit that I tried. Large bore MC to tone down the aggressive boost pressure.
It was a complete failure for me.

 

[Nxcoupe]

That was the thinking with the HB unit that I tried. Large bore MC to tone down the aggressive boost pressure.
It was a complete failure for me.

Confidence is high now! Lol

Wish it would have worked for you.

 

[Kern Dog]

I do too. I still have it here. I wonder if it can be tested somewhere to determine why it didn't work for me.

Re-Rebuilding the 440-493 in a 1970 Charger

See post #632 and beyond.
After much frustration, I removed the HB unit but as I was doing so, I found a kink in the return line of the external cooler.
It may have been the problem all along. No boost at all from the HB unit but some to the power steering. The odd thing is, the HB gets fluid first. You'd think that if the steering got boost, the HB should have too.

 

[funknut]

I had HB on my car for a while until the HB unit failed. It was by Tallon. They went out of business a couple years after I bought the kit. It looked just like the GM/Astro unit just with their custom mounting plate. I ran it with 13.2" 2-piston front and 11.8" discs in the rear (2010 mustang GT OE). With a 1-1/8" MC it was wonderful when it worked. Great power assist, loads of stopping power, comparable to any modern car I've driven. When it quit (company was out of business) I went to manual brakes with a 7/8" wilwood MC to get the car on the road quickly. I much prefer the HB setup. Opening up the HB unit to see about rebuilding it is on my list for the spring.

 

[70chall440]

So I am running a Type II PS pump which should work with the HB unit I am using. I did not want to buy a kit, rather I wanted something that I could get parts for from a local parts store or online. I suspect that many of the HB units are "GM" in origin as the one I have seems to look like most of the GM types I am seeing.

 

[64fury74charger]

So I am running a Type II PS pump which should work with the HB unit I am using. I did not want to buy a kit, rather I wanted something that I could get parts for from a local parts store or online. I suspect that many of the HB units are "GM" in origin as the one I have seems to look like most of the GM types I am seeing.

I would like to know if there is a way to adjust the pressure to the booster maybe similar to a brake proportioning valve?? If so one would theoretically be able to “ tune “ the booster pressure to the weight of the car. It’s all hydraulic pressure. Just some food for thought.

 

[70chall440]

I would like to know if there is a way to adjust the pressure to the booster maybe similar to a brake proportioning valve?? If so one would theoretically be able to “ tune “ the booster pressure to the weight of the car. It’s all hydraulic pressure. Just some food for thought.

You mean like this

 

[64fury74charger]

You mean like this

View attachment 1418378

Something like that to go on the pressure inlet side between the pump and booster so the pressure can be adjustable. I have not looked up working pressures yet but maybe having working numbers and see what is the difference for different cars and trucks. There must be some formula used to arrive at different level of boost based on weight or type of vehicle right? I am just thinking really loud. Thoughts?

 

[70chall440]

In theory it might work I think. I tried to do the same thing with the PS system in my Cuda, however this failed not bc of the regulator but bc of the remote reservoir I was using (was below the pump, something I failed to factor into the system).

My thought there was that if I could regulate the pressure I could dial in the response which is basically what we are saying here I think.

I still have that regulator, perhaps if the system I am developing is too twitchy I will try it out.

 

[64fury74charger]

In theory it might work I think. I tried to do the same thing with the PS system in my Cuda, however this failed not bc of the regulator but bc of the remote reservoir I was using (was below the pump, something I failed to factor into the system).

My thought there was that if I could regulate the pressure I could dial in the response which is basically what we are saying here I think.

I still have that regulator, perhaps if the system I am developing is too twitchy I will try it out.

Looks like we are thinking along the same lines and this hydraulic booster can not be too complicated because it’s hydraulic. I think it’s either control the pressure with an external valve or if there’s a set of washers or something like that that can be changed inside the booster. Similar to shims on the pump to adjust output pressure.

 

[70chall440]

Yeah I dont think there are any shims that you could install but I am not sure. The one thing is that if you restrict the flow it is probably going to increase the pressure.

 

[70chall440]

As I was doing some research I see that a GM type HB can produce 1300 - 1600 psi which the Borgeson box works with as does the Type II PS pump.

 

[fesser]

I will be carefully watching your progress. I have had HB in pickups and liked the system. Had a friend running it in a Chevelle with no issues. Doesn't seem like it should be tough to get it to work in a Mopar, but it doesn't seem to have much of a following among Mopar owners. In the meantime, I will be cleaning up this beast while I am cleaning other parts...

If nothing else, I know the pump was working with the HB, and that it was bolted to a 440. May not be much else that is relevant or useful since it was all on a Winnebago.

 

[HEMIB]

I would like to know if there is a way to adjust the pressure to the booster maybe similar to a brake proportioning valve?? If so one would theoretically be able to “ tune “ the booster pressure to the weight of the car. It’s all hydraulic pressure. Just some food for thought.

There is use the ford bypass valve in the rear of the pump drop's the pressure from around 1250 PSI to 850 psi if you look on the Holley site they have a low pressure unit & suggest the full pressure from a saginaw pump can damage a Borgenson & the Hydroboost unit i found at full pressure the brakes are far to touchy & the steering was too light & floaty

 

[HEMIB]

Y

Yeah I dont think there are any shims that you could install but I am not sure. The one thing is that if you restrict the flow it is probably going to increase the pressure.

You can buy a shim kit that goes in the small bypass piston in the pump i found it can make the fluid run much hotter
Borgeson 899001 Pressure Reducing Kit For Saginaw P/S Pump Ford do it by fitting a smaller bypass orifice valve in the pump