I give up. I'm done.

[2059]

When we put the blower on my '08 Challenger and re tuned it, I would run over 200 all the time. I was one week away from trying to stuff an aluminum 4 row radiator in the car when my buddy suggested trying Water Wetter. With a 180 degree therm. the fans now cycle and i never get above 200 even when thrashing on the car. The set up is a bored and stroked 6.1 to 426 ci GenIII hemi with a Techco 3L water cooled blower. I run about 14/15 lbs of boost and I'm at about 800 at the crank. As i understand it Water Wetter breaks the surface tension of the coolant and you txfer the heat better. May want to ask the guys here if it's ok for older cars. Good Luck.

 

[tpodwdog]

john...............john.....................JOHNNNNNNNNNNN........... HAVE YOU GIVEN ANY THOUGHT THAT YOUR TEMP GAUGE IS NOT READING ACCURATELY?... are you going by the factory gauge?....or a good reliable after market gauge????

and for the record guys...210 degrees is normal operating temperature.

my factory gauge in my 70 RR reads 250.....when my after market gauge reads 200....and it occasionally will go to 230.... but i dont sweat it.

as far as the starter....sounds to me like it needs shimmed....when things get hot ...THEY EXPAND ...and bind...unwrap the starter and wrap them header pipes.

did you flush the cooling system?

heres a stupid question for ya....DID YOU PUT THE THERMOSTAT IN UPSIDE DOWN BY CHANCE?....just asking...

 

[63dodge440]

+1 on tpodwdog thoughts....

 

[BIGSHCLUNK]

It has run hot ever since the 540 hp 440 mod.

440 source water pump housing??? (holes are too small). Engine bored past block capcity?? Head gasket installed upside down?? I'd look @ your build because you say it started there......

 

[john.thompson068]

I am not ignoring your thougths if don't answer to them. It is that none of those ideas sound plausible. As far as the heater core idea goes, I can watch the coolant flow rapidly through the radiator especially as I increase RPM. It is an auto meter guage.


I paid three hundred dollars for an alternator and two electric fans. The electric fans are currently useless because one of them an inch away from the radiator to avoid having to using the straps that go through the radiator, and the other one is over the top of my oil cooler which makes it have to blow through the cooler and then through the radiator and it is like 3 inches from the radiator. After I shut off the motor I put my hand into the shroud and barely felt any air coming through the radiator from the fans which were still running. The air is just bouncing off the front of the radiator and not even going through it. I did not spend 3 weekends and three hundred dollars to have some useless fans. I am going to take a couple weeks off. Then come back and take everything apart again. Move or possible replace the oil cooler with a different one and relocate it completely out of the way of the radiator. Then buy those strap kits and strap both fans directly to the radiator. Later if I decide to keep the car, I will have to cut away at the center post which supports the hood latch. Then I will have to mount the AC condenser with some custom brackets and lines forward in front of the electric fans. If after I make it so the two pusher fans actually blow air through the radiator instead of bouncing air off of it the car still has problems, I will add another puller fan. If that does not solve it, one of you can buy this car for a very good price sometime this summer and figure it out.

 

[john.thompson068]

Actually I will mount them directly to the radiator with these kinds of straps from SPAL. SPAL's website says the pin type hardware will damage the radiator in time gauraunteed. Why would Flex a lite not recommend having an electric fan as the vehicles only cooling fan? All new cars have nothing but electric fans. That doesn't sound like it makes since. If changing where these fans sit does not keep my car at 190 degrees (and it won't), I will have to go electric all the way around.

 

[62MAX]

Have you ever thought of using all the origional components that worked when new ? This motor runs at 175* no matter what,on the road and idle as long as you want,never goes above 180 and temp is checked with infrared gun.Radiator is factory 22" three core,factory shroud and 7 blade fixed fan ( not flex ) and factory 6 blade a/c water pump,and it has A/C.

 

[john.thompson068]

That is what I need. Never goes over 180 degrees. I think if I put my motor in your car you would be running hot as hell. There is nothing wrong with the cooling parts I have selected. When I end up going with a puller fan, I can use the fan I selected earlier and mount it to another one of the universal fan shroud kits like the one I have now. I will just use the box, cut a hole in it, and bolt the fan to it. Then I'll probably still have the same problem and sell the car.

 

[has2bmopar]

440 source water pump housing??? (holes are too small). Engine bored past block capcity?? Head gasket installed upside down?? I'd look @ your build because you say it started there......

Just a thought if you run out of ideas, to maybe check your impeller depth compared to your inner housing.

Copied this from one of my previous posts....

I am surprised that few people have noticed the hideous poor casting of the inside of the cheap aftermarket aluminum water pump housings. I ordered one from 440 Source and noticed right away, the very restricted passenger side port, it is even worse inside around the corner/ inaccessible to 440 Sources suggestion to just port it to the correct size. I already had a new Mopar Performance housing in wait for my Hemi, and compared it to the cheap copy... The real Mopar housing is really open inside and the smallest point is the port at the gasket surface, matching the gasket. 440 Sources response was that their water pumps are so awesome it will never make a difference... B.S. The pressure being equal no matter the amount of pressure will favor in volume the path of least resistance, so the vast majority of flow will be given to the drivers side (left bank). Even if the over all flow was enough that it didn't show it was over heating at the sending unit, the right bank will be much hotter the left. Has anyone been scoring right bank cylinders? I was very unimpressed with 440 Sources refusal to refund my money, so I could buy a Mopar Housing, instead I had to dream up a possible future for some over priced ARP headbolts, as it would be store credit only and I had to eat the shipping both ways, for a part that would likely fry any engine, or maybe just half of it. My personal experience was with 440 Source, but beware of any of the lesser housings and inspect the ports, as I noticed at a Mopar event in Minnesota that the PRW is the SAME thing, and have seen others that are shrink rapped to a piece of cardboard so you can't see the ports or feel the heavily restricted internals. I did take pictures of both housings with the gasket laying on them. If people quit buying the afflicted ones, maybe they will correct the problem. Until then... In my opinion, pay more now to the company that designed the part, or you may pay dearly later for buying the cheap copied counterfeit.

 

[kdtjb]

I always use Glen Rays. They are made for MOPARS (thats all they do ) and they work on big horse power motors. Take a look, give them a buzz. They know cooling.http://www.hemiradiators.com/

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

Just a thought if you run out of ideas, to maybe check your impeller depth compared to your inner housing.

Copied this from one of my previous posts....

I am surprised that few people have noticed the hideous poor casting of the inside of the cheap aftermarket aluminum water pump housings. I ordered one from 440 Source and noticed right away, the very restricted passenger side port, it is even worse inside around the corner/ inaccessible to 440 Sources suggestion to just port it to the correct size. I already had a new Mopar Performance housing in wait for my Hemi, and compared it to the cheap copy... The real Mopar housing is really open inside and the smallest point is the port at the gasket surface, matching the gasket. 440 Sources response was that their water pumps are so awesome it will never make a difference... B.S. The pressure being equal no matter the amount of pressure will favor in volume the path of least resistance, so the vast majority of flow will be given to the drivers side (left bank). Even if the over all flow was enough that it didn't show it was over heating at the sending unit, the right bank will be much hotter the left. Has anyone been scoring right bank cylinders? I was very unimpressed with 440 Sources refusal to refund my money, so I could buy a Mopar Housing, instead I had to dream up a possible future for some over priced ARP headbolts, as it would be store credit only and I had to eat the shipping both ways, for a part that would likely fry any engine, or maybe just half of it. My personal experience was with 440 Source, but beware of any of the lesser housings and inspect the ports, as I noticed at a Mopar event in Minnesota that the PRW is the SAME thing, and have seen others that are shrink rapped to a piece of cardboard so you can't see the ports or feel the heavily restricted internals. I did take pictures of both housings with the gasket laying on them. If people quit buying the afflicted ones, maybe they will correct the problem. Until then... In my opinion, pay more now to the company that designed the part, or you may pay dearly later for buying the cheap copied counterfeit.

I'm not sure what the person who wrote that post but I have a passenger side housing form 440source and the ports on either side are large. Remember heater hose nipples go on passenger side no matter were the lower hose side is. I have used both temp gauge sensors on wither side last one (stock sensor to SW gauge) on drivers side and now new mech type sensor on passenger side and temps are the same. I still run @180 all day unless in stop in go for extended periods then it goes up to 220 but back down to 180 when driving again. I would have to assume that this other guy just got a bad housing?

 

[john.thompson068]

I would have ordered the housing from MP. I ordered everything from Moparts back in those days. I probably even picked it up from the guys business since I lived nearby.


So why does BigMan get to run up to 220 in traffic and not have any hot starter issues? I just don't get this. I am not worried about the car running at 220 degrees at all. In fact, I read a post here somewhere where an engine will not even be damaged until it hits 250 degrees. I just want it to be able to turn over and start like it does when it is cool. Regardless, I will be undoing the 14 hours of work I put into my custom fan mounts and placing those two fans right on the radiator using some of those straps I discovered. I wish I had seen this coming before I spent all of that time and money. It looks like I will have to keep my car from ever going over 190 degrees if I ever wish to restart my car. There has to be something going on besides just heat soak. It has got to do something with the way the battery is wired up. I just realized that I am supposed to have my timing set to 20 degrees initial by setting the timing to 34 degrees at 3200 rpm. I am currently running only 14 degrees initial. This is according to the card that came back with my distributor after having the distributor re-curved. I was thinking about setting the timing according to this card and seeing what affect it has on starting before I put the car in the garage for a couple weekends to fix the fan problem.

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

mine is 10 initial and 35 total at 3300 rpm 800 cfm carb eddy avs.

 

[john.thompson068]

I set the timing to 20 initial and the car ran better, but would not start even after only ten minutes and temperatures of only 190 degrees. I set the timing to 18 degrees and the car still ran good as before, but would now just barely crank after only another ten minutes and temperatures of 210 degrees. I think there is some kind of wiring problem with my battery relocation kit. I will call Mark Monday to see what he recommends. Even if I had another electric fan and the car stayed at 190 degrees it will still not want to start. Bigman can run as hot as me and start. I will be looking to offload this car soon if I do not get this fixed.

 

[QTR MILE]

If its a Radiator cooling problem then give Tony at Smith's Radiator in Indiana a call. He will have you running cool and Radiator will bolt to stock location on support.

 

[62MAX]

May have missed if you posted earlier but out of curiosity,what starter are you using ?

 

[has2bmopar]

I'm not sure what the person who wrote that post but I have a passenger side housing form 440source I would have to assume that this other guy just got a bad housing?

I'm referring to the ports that mate to the block, and it is a poor casting issue, especially internally, so all of the housings they ran will be the same crap housing, until they fix the issue. The housings that I physically inspected were the '58-'72 driver's side inlet, and as I previously stated the PRW was the same flawed casting.

Without physically looking at the inner casting of the passenger's side inlet housing, I can't say if it is a piece of crap or not, but I won't hold my breath when it says 440 Source on it.

 

[D575]

What gauge cable are you running all the way from the trunk ? Have you checked the amp draw on the starter ? You could have bad windings or Like someone else said it may need to be shimmed. Have you done a plug reading ? Are you using pump gas ? Those timing settings may not work for pump gas.
Why is the battery in the trunk ? Are you sure you have a good ground. big amp draws will cook a starter as well.

 

[bigmanjbmopar]

He said has a new stock big starter and he said he has 8 awg all the way from batt to alt. plus huge gauge wire from batt in trunk forward. plus some sort of huge cable for a ground.

Starter is wrapped in a starter heat shield as well. Timing is one thing, but being an electrician when some thing stops working due to loss of power you go to the power source it's self - The Battery If that don't work then he must have something wrong with the motor set up?

 

[john.thompson068]

The battery cables and grounds straps are 1/0 guage welding cable and the ends were put on at a shop for me. This is what Mark at MAD recommends. There is no way to check amp draw at the starter unless I remove the headers, but shouldn't this test be done once everything is hot? I have not done any test on the battery when trying to crank the car. I will give Mark a call tomorrow and see what he has to say about the whole situation. What is so wierd is that I would swear five years ago I didn't have this problem. I barely drove the car for five years while in the Navy, and during that time I installed the battery relocation kit, and had the distributor re-curved. I don't remember ever having this problem. Then the car sat for three years in storage while I was in college. Last summer I pulled it out of storage and have been struggling with this problem for almost 10 months. I just don't get it.

My final effort will be to install one of those $200 plus mini starters for motors with 18:1 compression ratios like a Powermaster 9513. But I would really like to make sure that if I put that in it will not just have the same problem because it is not getting enough current for some reason. I honestly don't see why a stock starter is not working. At this point, I am hoping that Mark at MAD will be able to lead me in the right direction. There is nothing that guy does not understand about electrical systems in cars. Last time I called him he spent 45 minutes explaining alternators to me.