Bruzilla
Well-Known Member
- Local time
- 10:29 AM
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2012
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- 7,644
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- Location
- Orange Park, FL
I'm so pissed right now I can barely write, but man I figured I better share this cautionary tale with you all so you can learn from my mistakes.
For those of you who haven't seen my my Pittsbird project 74 Road Runner posts, my car was originally a 318/904 car, then someone put a 360/727 in it (or so I was told by the previous owner), and I bought the car with the intention of putting a 440/727 in it. I bought the car in 2/2012, got it back on the road in 8/2012, and got a hold of a 440 engine and tranny for it in 2/2013, which is where this story starts.
My plan was to sell the 360/727 that were in the car to offset the cost of having the 440 built up and installed. I had a buyer for them, but the deal fell through and I had some concerns about the first shop I talked to because they were Ford/Chebbie guys and didn't know much about Mopars.
I relisted the engine and tranny on Craigslist and was contacted by a young man who said he wanted to buy them to replace a /6 in a 66 Valiant he was working on. I drove my car over to where he worked so he could check out the engine and tranny, and it turned out he works for a local performance and restoration shop. I was asking $1,500 for the engine and tranny, and as soon as I saw this kid I doubted he had a spare $1,500 to spend. Turned out I was right, and once he checked out the engine he asked if I might be interested in having his shop do the 440 work in exchange for the 360 and tranny. I told him that was a deal I would have to make with the shop's owner, so the owner, the kid, and I had a meeting and we agreed the shop owner would give me a $1,500 shop credit, I would give the 360/727 to his employee, and the owner and employee could figure out how the $1,500 would be paid back to the owner (payments, working overtime, whatever). I dropped the car off, and told them I didn't need it back until September or so, so there was no big rush on it. I thought it was a pretty good deal for everyone involved. Another Mopar guy could get his car on the road, the shop owner got paid, and I had the work done by the owner who had been working on Mopars and racing them for years.
So jump ahead three months, and I hear nothing from the shop. I knew they were busy, but I thought I would have gotten a progress report. I drove past one Sunday and I saw my car hadn't been touched yet. My assumption was the kid had decided he really couldn't afford $1,500 and was busy looking for a cheaper V8 to use, and once he found it he would come up with some way to get out of the deal. Sure enough, June comes along and I get a message saying I had told the kid the tranny was a 727, but it was actually a 904 and he couldn't use a 904 so he was breaking the deal. Like I said, I figured something like this was going to happen based on how excited the kid had been to get the engine, then no work had been done in months.
I figured I was partly to blame because I hadn't actually checked to make sure the tranny was a 727, I just took the previous owner's word. So I go over to the shop and talk to the owner and the kid, and rather than make a big deal out of what happened I just told them I'll find another buyer for the engine and tranny and we'll move forward. I posted the engine and 904 tranny on Craigslist and soon had a nice guy in Orlando contact me to buy them to replace a bad 318 in a 68 Barracuda. He would pay my price if I delivered the engine and tranny to him and I loaded them up in my son's truck and drove them down. The only problem I had was when I went to pick the parts up at the shop, they couldn't find the exhaust manifolds I had dropped off. They had every other piece, but the manifolds, which I had dropped off separately from the car, were missing. I didn't really care since I told the Orlando guy the engine had headers and I never mentioned I had the original exhaust manifolds anyway. So I delivered the engine, got paid, and handed the cash over to the shop so they could get working on the car.
Then I get a call in late September from the shop owner telling me they had torn my transmission down and found there was a problem with it and he had sent it off to get rebuilt. I hadn't budgeted for a tranny rebuild, but the tranny had been pulled when I bought it so I wasn't certain if it was good or not. The good news was the shop owner was doing some engine work for the tranny shop, and they were going to rebuild my tranny for $600, which was a good deal. An even better deal was the owner had gone looking for parts for a 71 Cuda he's working on for another customer, and he found two sets of rebuilt 915 heads and camshafts that had been built for a racing project car in Gainseville that got cancelled, and he can put those heads and cam in my engine for $800. So now I owe another $1,400 that I hadn't budgeted for, but hey, I was getting a rebuilt tranny, better heads, and a better cam, so it was a good deal. I went to the shop and gave the owner some more money, and asked when the car would be done. He apologized profusely for the delays, but he said he had been forced to get rid of several guys and he was behind. That was when I noticed the kid I had initially sold the engine to was no longer working there.
Now comes October, and I get a call from the guy in Orlando and he tells me his mechanic started working on the engine and found out the engine is a 318 and not a 360! Crap! Once again, I had assumed the previous owner was telling me the truth, and since I had never intended to keep the small block engine or tranny in there, I never looked at them that closely, and that was my bad. I called the previous owner, and he and his dad, who's an ASE certified mechanic, both swore up and down that engine was a 360, so I had a friend of mine in Orlando go by the shop there and do a visual check to confirm the engine was a 318, and he said there was no doubt about it... it was a 318. So I called the Orlando guy back, got his mailing information, sent him his money back, and now I have to decide to plan a trip to go down to pick up a 318 and 904, or just say screw it and let the shop guy down there keep them because they aren't worth making the trip for.
So now I'm in the hole money wise, still owe the shop up here money because they had my tranny rebuilt and the new heads. The shop owner has the initial money I got from the guy in Orlando, plus additional money I've paid to start covering the tranny/heads; and the money I was going to use to pay off the balance all went to reimburse the guy in Orlando because I sold him a 318 instead of a 360. And, it's Christmas time so I don't have a lot of spare cash lying around.
Now comes a new twist. Last night I'm on Craigslist like I am every day, and when I search for Plymouth, what pops up but an ad for a 1966 Plymouth Valiant project car with a... you guessed it... 360! I thought how many 1966 Valiants with 360s could there possibly be around here, so I opened up the ad. And guess what the ad states? The car originally had a /6 but the owner has a 360 "from a road runner" that is ready to drop in. And guess who the owner is? The kid from the shop where my car is at! So now I'm about 99% sure that little POS got a 318 engine someplace, and the 904 tranny that was in his Valiant, and swapped them for the 360/727 that had been in my car. And now I know why the exhaust manifolds disappeared. There was no way that kid could use 71-74 B-body headers in a 66 A-body, but he sure could use those manifolds, so he took them when he took the engine and tranny. I emailed the kid under a different name and asked lots of questions like a buyer would, with one interlaced among them about what year road runner the engine had come from. If he tells me a 74, he's going to be f&#king toast!
So, it turns out the previous owners were both stand-up guys and telling the truth all along, but even so I was an idiot for not taking a few minutes to verify what was actually on the car. Since this kid was apparently fired this summer, I'm guessing he got caught doing something, so I don't think the shop owner is the problem. He seems like a stand-up guy who's got so many irons in the fire that he can't watch what's going on as closely as he should. So once I hear back from the kid, and verify he's got my engine and tranny, I'm going back for a meeting with the owner and say as far as I'm concerned he still owes me a $1,500 credit because I made that deal with him, not the kid, and he can take whatever action he wants to take against his former employee. Barring that, I'll have to take both he and the kid to court, spend a lot of their money to pay court costs, and then have criminal charges pressed against the kid. So I'm hoping the shop owner and I can just come to terms, get my car done, and get it the Hell out of there.
For those of you who haven't seen my my Pittsbird project 74 Road Runner posts, my car was originally a 318/904 car, then someone put a 360/727 in it (or so I was told by the previous owner), and I bought the car with the intention of putting a 440/727 in it. I bought the car in 2/2012, got it back on the road in 8/2012, and got a hold of a 440 engine and tranny for it in 2/2013, which is where this story starts.
My plan was to sell the 360/727 that were in the car to offset the cost of having the 440 built up and installed. I had a buyer for them, but the deal fell through and I had some concerns about the first shop I talked to because they were Ford/Chebbie guys and didn't know much about Mopars.
I relisted the engine and tranny on Craigslist and was contacted by a young man who said he wanted to buy them to replace a /6 in a 66 Valiant he was working on. I drove my car over to where he worked so he could check out the engine and tranny, and it turned out he works for a local performance and restoration shop. I was asking $1,500 for the engine and tranny, and as soon as I saw this kid I doubted he had a spare $1,500 to spend. Turned out I was right, and once he checked out the engine he asked if I might be interested in having his shop do the 440 work in exchange for the 360 and tranny. I told him that was a deal I would have to make with the shop's owner, so the owner, the kid, and I had a meeting and we agreed the shop owner would give me a $1,500 shop credit, I would give the 360/727 to his employee, and the owner and employee could figure out how the $1,500 would be paid back to the owner (payments, working overtime, whatever). I dropped the car off, and told them I didn't need it back until September or so, so there was no big rush on it. I thought it was a pretty good deal for everyone involved. Another Mopar guy could get his car on the road, the shop owner got paid, and I had the work done by the owner who had been working on Mopars and racing them for years.
So jump ahead three months, and I hear nothing from the shop. I knew they were busy, but I thought I would have gotten a progress report. I drove past one Sunday and I saw my car hadn't been touched yet. My assumption was the kid had decided he really couldn't afford $1,500 and was busy looking for a cheaper V8 to use, and once he found it he would come up with some way to get out of the deal. Sure enough, June comes along and I get a message saying I had told the kid the tranny was a 727, but it was actually a 904 and he couldn't use a 904 so he was breaking the deal. Like I said, I figured something like this was going to happen based on how excited the kid had been to get the engine, then no work had been done in months.
I figured I was partly to blame because I hadn't actually checked to make sure the tranny was a 727, I just took the previous owner's word. So I go over to the shop and talk to the owner and the kid, and rather than make a big deal out of what happened I just told them I'll find another buyer for the engine and tranny and we'll move forward. I posted the engine and 904 tranny on Craigslist and soon had a nice guy in Orlando contact me to buy them to replace a bad 318 in a 68 Barracuda. He would pay my price if I delivered the engine and tranny to him and I loaded them up in my son's truck and drove them down. The only problem I had was when I went to pick the parts up at the shop, they couldn't find the exhaust manifolds I had dropped off. They had every other piece, but the manifolds, which I had dropped off separately from the car, were missing. I didn't really care since I told the Orlando guy the engine had headers and I never mentioned I had the original exhaust manifolds anyway. So I delivered the engine, got paid, and handed the cash over to the shop so they could get working on the car.
Then I get a call in late September from the shop owner telling me they had torn my transmission down and found there was a problem with it and he had sent it off to get rebuilt. I hadn't budgeted for a tranny rebuild, but the tranny had been pulled when I bought it so I wasn't certain if it was good or not. The good news was the shop owner was doing some engine work for the tranny shop, and they were going to rebuild my tranny for $600, which was a good deal. An even better deal was the owner had gone looking for parts for a 71 Cuda he's working on for another customer, and he found two sets of rebuilt 915 heads and camshafts that had been built for a racing project car in Gainseville that got cancelled, and he can put those heads and cam in my engine for $800. So now I owe another $1,400 that I hadn't budgeted for, but hey, I was getting a rebuilt tranny, better heads, and a better cam, so it was a good deal. I went to the shop and gave the owner some more money, and asked when the car would be done. He apologized profusely for the delays, but he said he had been forced to get rid of several guys and he was behind. That was when I noticed the kid I had initially sold the engine to was no longer working there.
Now comes October, and I get a call from the guy in Orlando and he tells me his mechanic started working on the engine and found out the engine is a 318 and not a 360! Crap! Once again, I had assumed the previous owner was telling me the truth, and since I had never intended to keep the small block engine or tranny in there, I never looked at them that closely, and that was my bad. I called the previous owner, and he and his dad, who's an ASE certified mechanic, both swore up and down that engine was a 360, so I had a friend of mine in Orlando go by the shop there and do a visual check to confirm the engine was a 318, and he said there was no doubt about it... it was a 318. So I called the Orlando guy back, got his mailing information, sent him his money back, and now I have to decide to plan a trip to go down to pick up a 318 and 904, or just say screw it and let the shop guy down there keep them because they aren't worth making the trip for.
So now I'm in the hole money wise, still owe the shop up here money because they had my tranny rebuilt and the new heads. The shop owner has the initial money I got from the guy in Orlando, plus additional money I've paid to start covering the tranny/heads; and the money I was going to use to pay off the balance all went to reimburse the guy in Orlando because I sold him a 318 instead of a 360. And, it's Christmas time so I don't have a lot of spare cash lying around.
Now comes a new twist. Last night I'm on Craigslist like I am every day, and when I search for Plymouth, what pops up but an ad for a 1966 Plymouth Valiant project car with a... you guessed it... 360! I thought how many 1966 Valiants with 360s could there possibly be around here, so I opened up the ad. And guess what the ad states? The car originally had a /6 but the owner has a 360 "from a road runner" that is ready to drop in. And guess who the owner is? The kid from the shop where my car is at! So now I'm about 99% sure that little POS got a 318 engine someplace, and the 904 tranny that was in his Valiant, and swapped them for the 360/727 that had been in my car. And now I know why the exhaust manifolds disappeared. There was no way that kid could use 71-74 B-body headers in a 66 A-body, but he sure could use those manifolds, so he took them when he took the engine and tranny. I emailed the kid under a different name and asked lots of questions like a buyer would, with one interlaced among them about what year road runner the engine had come from. If he tells me a 74, he's going to be f&#king toast!
So, it turns out the previous owners were both stand-up guys and telling the truth all along, but even so I was an idiot for not taking a few minutes to verify what was actually on the car. Since this kid was apparently fired this summer, I'm guessing he got caught doing something, so I don't think the shop owner is the problem. He seems like a stand-up guy who's got so many irons in the fire that he can't watch what's going on as closely as he should. So once I hear back from the kid, and verify he's got my engine and tranny, I'm going back for a meeting with the owner and say as far as I'm concerned he still owes me a $1,500 credit because I made that deal with him, not the kid, and he can take whatever action he wants to take against his former employee. Barring that, I'll have to take both he and the kid to court, spend a lot of their money to pay court costs, and then have criminal charges pressed against the kid. So I'm hoping the shop owner and I can just come to terms, get my car done, and get it the Hell out of there.
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I was able to track down the last guy who made the error of stealing from me, and even though it was a used item worth about $300 I ended up having him arrested, convicted, and sent to jail for six months, and as part of his probation he had to pay me back replacement value for the item, which was $750, so I'm never shy about getting justice.
