Intermediate shaft gear troubles

[Hemirunner]

Replacing the bushing is the only way to make sure the gear mesh is correct. If it's worn down as well, it'll just kill the new gear.

 

[rumblefish360]

I'll never understand why Crane didn't sell the whole gear/shaft assembly. Those are an incredible PIA to change.

I have never done one myself. IIRC, it's just the roll pin holding it together.

 

[Hemirunner]

It's also a press fit. Just getting the old one apart is big fun.

 

[lewtot184]

i've pressed them in and out before. back in the day it was the only way to set up a dual line milodon. reworking a shaft with a pinned gear is a waste of time and parts. i'm thinking, and could be wrong, that the nickel-bronze gears may have the best for wear/life.

 

[440beep]

So I was reading Hughes Engine's website for their intermediate shaft and "coated" gear, and it says not for use with high volume or pressure oil pumps as it causes premature wear of cam gear and/or oil pump gear. Think I found the problem then, since I have a Melling high volume oil pump (M63HV). So now what, get a normal oil pump for my performance motor, or just get the oil pump spacers to reduce the pressure of my high volume pump?

http://www.hughesengines.com/Index/...Y2sp&level1=T2lsaW5nIFN5c3RlbQ==&partid=28107

 

[rumblefish360]

A regular oil pump is good for 99% of most builds. Since there street builds. High volume pumps are for racing purposes. But not exclusive.

 

[440beep]

So do I get a new OEM pump while I'm at it, or will the shims that reduce the oil pressure of the high flow pump be a safe solution? This is new ground for me........

 

[69a100]

I can't help with your problem, I'm just glad I use Genuine Mopar Parts so I don't have problems like this.

 

[lewtot184]

use a standard pressure spring in the hi-vol pump; no shimming the spring.

 

[Hemirunner]

I run a high volume pump with the bronze gear with no issues. I don't have any long term experience with the Crane gear so I can't help you there. I think some regurgitate advice they've read on the internet. I tend to base my advice on personal experience.

 

[440beep]

Well I have lots of options to choose from now in hopes of fixing this problem for good. I've got a new brass Milodon intermediate shaft, got the stainless steel shims to put in between brass gear and bushing, got the Crane "special coated" gear and intermediate shaft, and also got a normal flow oil pump if I decide to change oil pumps.

Hemirunner, I'm really leaning to your fix of using the stainless steel shim in between the parts.....

 

[Hemirunner]

Let us know which way you go and how it works out.

 

[440beep]

Well, after doing some more internet research, looks like I can't use the special coated distributor gear with the current cam based on what Crane recommends. Looks like Crane doesn't recommended using the special coated gear with a cam that previously used other types of gears on it due to current wear pattern on cam gear. So looks like I'm back to the Milodon bronze gear with .005 shim, normal pressure oil pump and lower viscosity oil.

Then pull the motor over the winter and check everything out.

 

[lewtot184]

Well, after doing some more internet research, looks like I can't use the special coated distributor gear with the current cam based on what Crane recommends. Looks like Crane doesn't recommended using the special coated gear with a cam that previously used other types of gears on it due to current wear pattern on cam gear. So looks like I'm back to the Milodon bronze gear with .005 shim, normal pressure oil pump and lower viscosity oil.

Then pull the motor over the winter and check everything out.

are you sure crane isn't referring to cast iron on cast iron vs billet on bronze?

 

[440beep]

No, the reference is to that specailly coated gear they have that can be used with any cam gear. The following was copied from the "Cuda-Challenger forum" from 2011.

"From Crane.....

Crane Cams now offers precision machined, specially coated and processed steel distributor gears for popular engines using either cast flat faced lifter or steel roller camshafts. Since roller lifter cams are made from either induction hardened steel or carburized steel, neither of these materials are compatible with the normal stock distributor gears. In the past, “bronze” distributor gears were used. For street applications these gears can wear at a high rate and may have to be replaced on a regular basis.

By using modern heat treating and manufacturing processes, Crane Cams has developed a series of steel distributor gears that are compatible with standard cast cams and induction hardened and carburized steel roller cams. Crane Cams now makes it possible to use a steel distributor gear that provides OEM-style life-span, eliminating the need to frequently replace bronze alloy gears. These Crane steel gears are available for most popular engines for both stock and aftermarket distributors. The use of these gears on camshafts that have been previously run with other types or materials of gears, or the unnecessary use of high volume/high pressure oil pumps, can be severely detrimental to the life of the camshaft gear.Note: The “Shaft Diameter” dimension referred to is the portion of the distributor shaft, or intermediate shaft, that the gear registers on. It may be necessary to remove the original gear to measure the shaft diameter correctly."

are you sure crane isn't referring to cast iron on cast iron vs billet on bronze?

 

[Hemirunner]

I read that as " can be severely detrimental" rather than "will be" and keep in mind that your bronze gear was much softer than your cam so I don't see how the gear could impart wear in the cam at all. Having said that, I have no long term experience as to the life expectancy of that Crane gear so proceed with caution.

 

[440beep]

Yes, I know. Typical, legal, qualifying language (I use it everyday in my tax profession). Damned if I do, damned if I don't. Might as well flip a quarter with what gear to use.

 

[lewtot184]

to me that's an ambiguous statement. i still think it's an iron on iron reference; new gear on used iron cam.

 

[Hemirunner]

My reasoning usually leans toward the bronze gear. It's a non-ferrous material that wears into small particles that will be trapped by the filter and I know it's not capable of wearing the cam. It's much less expensive than the cam and can act as a "sacrificial lamb" if need be, although not ideal. The Crane gear would have to be an experiment as I still don't know what happens if the coating wears off? How does that effect the cam and how could any ferrous material coming from that wear impact the engine? One of these days, maybe I'll find out.

 

[440beep]

Quick question, got the old bushing out and new bushing in. I tried using the bushing install tool but it kept pulling the damn bushing out instead of leaving it wedged in the block. But anyways, I used the blunt end of a breaker bar to drive the bushing back down into the block, does it matter if I scarred up the top of the bushing? Looks to be a few low spots from the breaker bar (might aid in oiling anyway)? Is a another new bushing needed?

My thoughts is no since all the pressure is inside the bushing and I plan to run that 0.003 or 0.005 shim in between the bushing the intermediate shaft gear anyways.

TIA!!!