K FRAME UP GRADE

[1 Wild R/T]

Hi Guys,
I was wondering if you can point me in the right direction.
I really hate the way my 69 charger handles. I would like it to be more stable and predictable for normal driving on the street. Terrible bump steer and the car really leans when turning.
On the freeway, it drives like a dream as long as you don't hit bumps or have to turn slightly. Let go of the wheel and it stays true.

The previous owner rebuilt the entire (stock) front end. It also has sway bars front and rear. New rear leafs too. The front end has been aligned.

I would rather not do a full front end suspension change (QA1 or similar) and would rather just change whatever helps me to get somewhat better street handling.

I have been searching but I can't seem to find a forum topic that can help me.

Thank you in advance.

View attachment 1452775

For it to drive as poorly as you indicate something isn't right.... You say stock but clearly it has later discs which have the spindles swapped side to side to clear the early sway bar.... That should all work together without issue but it's not technically "stock"...

Hard to tell in the picture but what is the sway bar diameter? it looks kinda small which your leaning in the turns tends to confirm...

Also what shocks are those? any idea what the numbers are from the last alignment?

You say it's been aligned but by who? Joe down at Big O tires or Bob at Goodyear turn the adjustment to what their computer screen tells them... That's not how you make these old cars handle... Ask around & find a shop that knows performance handling.. Expect to pay a little more but expect to get a little more too...

Wish you were closer, making these cars driver well is something I like...

 

[dadsbee]

It ain't gonna drive like a 2018 Challenger no matter how hard you try. What I love about our old stuff, you have to drive it through a corner, not expect the car to do it for you!

 

[1 Wild R/T]

It ain't gonna drive like a 2018 Challenger no matter how hard you try. What I love about our old stuff, you have to drive it through a corner, not expect the car to do it for you!

Yeah, very true, if you want a new car buy a new car.. But these cars can drive & handle quite well.... And it don't take much..

 

[Cheapsunglasses]

What I love about our old stuff, you have to drive it through a corner, not expect the car to do it for you!

Well said, and I agree 100%. Some people have gotten so use to having everything done for them, when they get out of their toaster, and into a real car, and have to really drive, it’s so awful! I prefer my Datsun 280zx, and GTX over anything, I love manual transmissions and having to do the work. I love feeling the road, having to work the brakes, the steering wheel, the clutch, all for the perfect corner, the perfect shift. It’s a drug! New cars, you just get in, buckle up, go from point a to point b, not a care in the world

 

[JR_Charger]

What condition are the lower control arm bushings in? I know not everyone loves Uncle Tony but I think he does a good job of dealing with the issues with worn LCA bushings here -



- and also how awful it is to replace them. I tried to hire a mechanic to pop my old bushings out, and he wouldn't do it.

It looks like you're on budget shocks, so Bilsteins would help some (for a price).

If your suspension is mostly stock, it is tuned for sixties bias-ply tires. I've read that running modern tires actually makes the handling worse, as the suspension is not tuned for them, but I've also been told that isn't true. All I can say is, when I first drove my 72 it was so bad that I doubted I'd be able to keep it on the road. And we're talking about driving down an interstate, not a narrow country backroad. I can't scientifically prove that the bad handling was caused by radials, or LCA bushings, or vague factory steering - but when I burned out the original LCA bushings a couple years ago, they still looked o.k. This is 30 years after I first drove the car.

All the other bushings could be shot as well. You could replace the rubber with PST's polygraphite bushings (I'd avoid polyurethane unless you love a squeeky suspension). That is the easiest solution for the LCA bushing. You can burn out the old rubber and leave the shell in, it gets reused. But we've debated a lot over whether PST's polygraphite LCA bushing walks out or not over time.

You said you didn't want to do a full suspension rebuild, but FWIW the stuff you've got isn't stout enough to get the most out of modern tires.

 

[BigLime]

For it to drive as poorly as you indicate something isn't right.... You say stock but clearly it has later discs which have the spindles swapped side to side to clear the early sway bar.... That should all work together without issue but it's not technically "stock"...

Hard to tell in the picture but what is the sway bar diameter? it looks kinda small which your leaning in the turns tends to confirm...

Also what shocks are those? any idea what the numbers are from the last alignment?

You say it's been aligned but by who? Joe down at Big O tires or Bob at Goodyear turn the adjustment to what their computer screen tells them... That's not how you make these old cars handle... Ask around & find a shop that knows performance handling.. Expect to pay a little more but expect to get a little more too...

Wish you were closer, making these cars driver well is something I like...

You guys are right. Used to the newer cars. I forgot all about the fact that it has disk brakes! Sway bar is 1" diameter.
The shocks were supposedly new when the front end was rebuilt. They would be about 8 years old now, but with only 1500 miles on them. I am in Arizona heat though. They look like no name stock shocks.

I actually did the alignment using toe plates and tape measure method to get toe in/out. (I don't trust any shop with doing it right.) It was a while ago but I think I set it to about 1/8 toe in.
I did not adjust caster. (Don't remember why.)
I set camber using a digital level that was long enough to reach the outside edges of the rim. If I remember right, I set it to whatever the factory manual said.

The car does ride very well going straight with no bumps. No pull to either side. Very smooth, so I think I got the two adjustments correct. I can let the wheel go at 70 and it really stays true.

The bump steer and super "deep" lean on turns are my main issues. The bump steer is REALLY what drives me crazy. If I could make only that better, I would be happy (for now ).

I have owned many cars from the 60's and 70's and know what to expect with handling, but this car is almost dangerous on tight turns with bumps. It's one reason I don't drive the car more often.
I am will to try any suggestions that even incrementally improve it.
I am also willing to spend a good amount of money on this. I am a DYI guy but I don't think I could easily install a entire QA1, etc...

Thanks for your help guys. Greatly appreciated.

 

[BigLime]

What condition are the lower control arm bushings in? I know not everyone loves Uncle Tony but I think he does a good job of dealing with the issues with worn LCA bushings here -



- and also how awful it is to replace them. I tried to hire a mechanic to pop my old bushings out, and he wouldn't do it.

It looks like you're on budget shocks, so Bilsteins would help some (for a price).

If your suspension is mostly stock, it is tuned for sixties bias-ply tires. I've read that running modern tires actually makes the handling worse, as the suspension is not tuned for them, but I've also been told that isn't true. All I can say is, when I first drove my 72 it was so bad that I doubted I'd be able to keep it on the road. And we're talking about driving down an interstate, not a narrow country backroad. I can't scientifically prove that the bad handling was caused by radials, or LCA bushings, or vague factory steering - but when I burned out the original LCA bushings a couple years ago, they still looked o.k. This is 30 years after I first drove the car.

All the other bushings could be shot as well. You could replace the rubber with PST's polygraphite bushings (I'd avoid polyurethane unless you love a squeeky suspension). That is the easiest solution for the LCA bushing. You can burn out the old rubber and leave the shell in, it gets reused. But we've debated a lot over whether PST's polygraphite LCA bushing walks out or not over time.

You said you didn't want to do a full suspension rebuild, but FWIW the stuff you've got isn't stout enough to get the most out of modern tir

All bushings were replaced on the rebuild. I didn't own the car then but they are all definitely new, but my guess is they are totally stock bushings.
Thanks for the video!

 

[1 Wild R/T]

The bushing in the lower control arm is the hardest part of a Mopar suspension rebuild... If the rebuild is being done by a shop without allot of Mopar experience it's often ignored...

And unless you really know where to look you would never know..

Stock bushings are the best option for the lower control arm..

Offset bushings installed for max caster are the best option for the upper control arms...

Your 1" sway bar is stock & if you want to turn corners without lots of body roll it needs to go...

Your alignment without paying attention to caster ain't gonna cut it...

The bump steer is odd, either something that's been swapped is a mismatch or something is bent.... These cars might experience minor bump steer but certainly nothing scary...

As far as a starting point parts wise.... My suggestions are...

Front sway bar

1964-1969 Dodge Mopar B-Body - Tubular Hellwig FRONT Sway Bar 55903 (1-3/8 Diameter) [55903] | $375.99 | SD Truck Springs | Leaf Springs, Helper Springs and Suspension Parts

1964-1969 Dodge Mopar B-Body - Tubular Hellwig FRONT Sway Bar 55903 (1-3/8 Diameter) [55903] | Description Hellwig tubular sway bars are designed to achieve maximum performance without adding unnecessary weight to your vehicle. This sway bar utilizes high strength tubular DOM steel to give the...

www.sdtrucksprings.com

Rear sway bar

1964-1969 Mopar B-Body - REAR Sway Bar (7/8) [6909] | $381.88 | SD Truck Springs | Leaf Springs, Helper Springs and Suspension Parts

1964-1969 Mopar B-Body - REAR Sway Bar (7/8) [6909] | Description If you are looking to improve your street performance and handling, a Hellwig solid sway bar is a huge step in the right direction. Hellwig motorsports has been manufacturing sway bars for more than 40 years and they do it with...

www.sdtrucksprings.com

Front Shocks

'62-'72 B-Body Front Bilstein Shocks

A high-performance handling package is not complete without an excellent set of shock absorbers. The compression and rebound characteristics of your suspension are key elements to a fine handling car. Firm Feel is proud to offer the RCD Classics line of Bilstein Shock Absorbers to complement...

firmfeel.com

Rear Shocks

'62-'72 B-Body Rear Bilstein Shocks

A high-performance handling package is not complete without an excellent set of shock absorbers. The compression and rebound characteristics of your suspension are key elements to a fine handling car. Firm Feel is proud to offer the RCD Classics line of Bilstein Shock Absorbers to complement...

firmfeel.com

If you are 100% confident the lower bushings are new, cool, if you have doubts take a picture & post it....

In the past I always used Moog but they changed & are made wrong so I've used these that last few cars I've done.. They seem fine..
Amazon product ASIN B000C9S3RG
Offset upper control arm bushings
Amazon product ASIN B000C543N8
Strut Rod bushings, the ones I like are the
Moog Problem Solver K7026 Steel Lined Strut Rod Bushings
They are obsolete but they still pop up if you are will to look... And IMO they are worth holding out for the good stuff..

 

[BigLime]

The bushing in the lower control arm is the hardest part of a Mopar suspension rebuild... If the rebuild is being done by a shop without allot of Mopar experience it's often ignored...

And unless you really know where to look you would never know..

Stock bushings are the best option for the lower control arm..

Offset bushings installed for max caster are the best option for the upper control arms...

Your 1" sway bar is stock & if you want to turn corners without lots of body roll it needs to go...

Your alignment without paying attention to caster ain't gonna cut it...

The bump steer is odd, either something that's been swapped is a mismatch or something is bent.... These cars might experience minor bump steer but certainly nothing scary...

As far as a starting point parts wise.... My suggestions are...

Front sway bar

http://[URL]https://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=16956

[/URL]

Rear sway bar

http://[URL]https://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=10104

[/URL]

Front Shocks

http://[URL]https://firmfeel.com/co...ucts/62-72-b-body-bilstein-shocks-fronts-only

[/URL]

Rear Shocks

http://[URL]https://firmfeel.com/co...ducts/62-72-b-body-bilstein-shocks-rears-only

[/URL]

If you are 100% confident the lower bushings are new, cool, if you have doubts take a picture & post it....

In the past I always used Moog but they changed & are made wrong so I've used these that last few cars I've done.. They seem fine..
Amazon product ASIN B000C9S3RG
Offset upper control arm bushings
Amazon product ASIN B000C543N8
Strut Rod bushings, the ones I like are the
Moog Problem Solver K7026 Steel Lined Strut Rod Bushings
They are obsolete but they still pop up if you are will to look... And IMO they are worth holding out for the good stuff..

Thank you very much! I’ll take a look at those options. I appreciate all of your help.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

One thing I forgot to mention, Ask around, find a alignment shop that knows Mopar & knows performance.. Have them look it over, see if something is bent or mismatched or if what you perceive as bump steer is simply the lack of caster which is what tends to keep the wheels seeking a straight line.... Just like the casters on a tea cart, caster keeps your wheels trying to go straight.... Under idea conditions tire with go straight even with zero caster but throw a bump in the path which knocks the tire onto a new path & guess where you car is gonna go?

Modern cars tend to have at least five degrees of caster with some having as much as 11-12 degrees... Cars from the 60's typically had less than a degree.... With a few simple tweaks 4-7 degrees is possible...