Kratom as a pain reliever and a safe pathway to reduce/eliminate opiate use

[steve from staten island]

SOME people seem either too slow or just ignorant. Post after post, they do not understand what people are saying.
The way I see it, it is a common belief that the Doctor and patient relationship has itself been poisoned by both the insurance industry and the Drug companies. We may wince at the thought but what are the chances that Doctors are given special incentives to push/prescribe certain drugs? What if those drugs are not only NOT what the patient needs but possibly harmful to their physical or mental health?
For years I have heard Potheads brag about the medicinal aspects of Marijuana. I dismissed it until I grew up and took notice. Drug companies make NOTHING from plants that people can grow in their backyard. Of COURSE they are eager to dismiss whatever medical benefits these natural remedies may provide.

Why dont you man up and say exactly who "SOME'' are, instead of this B/S comment you made?
Exactly how has the doctor patient relationship been "poisoned" by the insurance industry and more specifically the "drug" companies.
I know of NO responsible competent MD's who push or would prescribe a drug for a personal incentive.
I do know some people in the carpentry trade who lied about how many squares a roof was to inflate the price of a job.
Were they getting a incentive from the supply yard?
Some companies are making profits now on medical marijuana now as my wife has tried it and its not cheap.
Again the evil conspiracy.

 

[steve from staten island]

Drug companies make NOTHING from plants that people can grow in their backyard. Of COURSE they are eager to dismiss whatever medical benefits these natural remedies may provide.[/QUOTE]
http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2011/where-does-medicine-come-from/

 

[G.V.Charger]

Drug companies make NOTHING from plants that people can grow in their backyard. Of COURSE they are eager to dismiss whatever medical benefits these natural remedies may pr ovide.

http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2011/where-does-medicine-come-from/[/QUOTE]
That's why pharmaceutical companies have invested huge amount of money up here in Canada to produce their own cannabis products to get on the greed band wagon. And you bet they will apply pressure to the government to reduce the amount grown in your back yard...
Kratom and cannabis, pretty much the same idea, the drug companies will do what ever it takes to keep their profits where they are, and just like cannabis, once the government, approves it, and takes the ban off, those same companies will jump on the band wagon.
We have been told by the government, the medical industry and the authorities how wrong cannabis was, for decade's, now they all have a way to make profits off it, and of course, the medical industry, now stands behind it..... Whaaaaaaaaaat
Doctors.Hmmmmm...I do not even trust, my veterinarian, They are only human and human's make mistakes.
If you doubt a diagnosis, get a second opinion

More of a discussion for another day, how much money did the legal industry, make off cannabis, and how many lawyers own cannabis production plants today.....

 

[steve from staten island]

Thank you for your reply.
Marijuana and Kratom are apples and oranges. Medical marijuana at least what I've come in contact with is a specific market and do to the fact it has to be grown under controlled environments, drug companies are not jumping on any bandwagon. At least not yet.
Im not a advocate for any pharmaceutical company but i would remind you and others were would we be today with out some of the drugs they have produced?
I simply do not understand the distrust in general for the medical industry as a whole. Its evident throughout this entire thread.
Being this is a car forum do you distrust the entire automotive industry because of some shoddy mechanics?
Were do we draw the line here
Kratom is a potentially dangerous drug. The repercussions of using it are still not fully understood.
It will and should be studied and researched by qualified companies and the medical community, something the OP is not.
To discuss it as something that may be of benefit is one thing, to endorse its use and to indirectly encourage some to use it is highly irresponsible and dangerous.

 

[biomedtechguy]

It will and should be studied and researched by qualified companies and the medical community, something the OP is not.
To discuss it as something that may be of benefit is one thing, to endorse its use and to indirectly encourage some to use it is highly irresponsible and dangerous.

I have enough respect for anyone on this forum to be mature enough to weigh the risks and possible benefits of Kratom with the information that is available, from the variety of sources that that information can be gleaned from, and then they can decide for themselves what course of action to take.
Some prefer the "security" of the nanny state, where the government and their officially certified entities are viewed as the ultimate or only authority whose decisions and opinions are handed down from on high by the elite and infallible.
And then there's a middle ground.
I reject SFSI's labeling of me and my posts as "highly irresponsible and dangerous". If everyone thought like he does, Columbus would have stayed home, and we would still think the earth is flat.

 

[steve from staten island]

I have enough respect for anyone on this forum to be mature enough to weigh the risks and possible benefits of Kratom with the information that is available, from the variety of sources that that information can be gleaned from, and then they can decide for themselves what course of action to take.
Some prefer the "security" of the nanny state, where the government and their officially certified entities are viewed as the ultimate or only authority whose decisions and opinions are handed down from on high by the elite and infallible.
And then there's a middle ground.
I reject SFSI's labeling of me and my posts as "highly irresponsible and dangerous". If everyone thought like he does, Columbus would have stayed home, and we would still think the earth is flat.

Your way way over your head here.
Your out of your league and out of line. I tell you this as a friend and thats why i took the tone i did.
Im no longer comfortable discussing it.
I will tell you that i think you would be doing yourself as well as potentially others to ask the moderators as a favor to delete this entire thread.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I consider you a friend too Steve.
I wouldn't have put this on the forum if I was concerned about liability.
If you have a particular concern(s), regarding why I should ask for the thread to be removed, please use the conversation method.
Thanks.

 

[mopar 3 B]

Hogwash !!!! You presented yourself as conducting research, having experience and you again dismissed the medical community. Its all there in your first postings and thats my complaint.
You present no long term studies on Kratom, because you dont have any long term studies !
You talk about research. Have you done actual research or looked it up on line? Big difference!
I was done with this thread until i read "very adversarial position to counter what i was presenting" There is no adversarial position, the only position is you cannot back up your claims other than to post links.
This is not politics or your interpretation of our Constitution, this is peoples health and well being were talking about!!!
And now I'm losing my temper .
How dare you say things against people in the medical field or people with the credentials who offer caution on using this substance.
Sure some people react and have good results but that does not mean all will and again with out the proper research by qualified people and your not one do not come off as a expert, its wrong and dangerous.
Again and not meaning to put you down but it has to be said.
You have no research, no filed papers, no patients, no experience, no degree as a health care professional, no nothing except your opinions based on possibly talking to people or using the substance yourself
Tell me your medical background.
Tell me your studies and research you did and documented yourself?
Tell me your personal findings and who your affiliated with. What hospital, what university, what outreach program
Tell me and then i will admit i am out of line
The internet were one click of the keyboard and everybody is a expert in everything.

I don't mean to farther add to your anger Steve but please get out the little book stuffed into the last RX purchased and read the dangers of taking it. Then wonder why any sane doctor would prescribe it to anyone. Is this the state of todays medicine when something is tested and deemed safe by a pharmaceutical for the majority of the population and lethal for the rest is ok just because it will make someone big dollars. Over a herb, field test for generations. There is a chance one could choke and die over that cup of coffee consumed tomorrow morning so lets just ban that also.

 

[steve from staten island]

Im not angry. Your post is ridiculous to the point of being stupid. Does anyone of your loved ones take any modern meds including you that has improved or added longevity to there lives? Infections? Antibiotics? Heart?
This field tested herb is a powerful drug and has been used to get high. It has reportedly been used to cure pain and illnesses. Research it, refine it, label it, prescribe it by medical professionals, not head shops not people with zero medical backgrounds.
I have no idea why some cant get that through there heads and insist there smarter than everyone else.
Why is it you and some resent a company who invests millions of dollars into developing a drug that improves lives of sick people turning a profit but yet complain about socialism. Are you against capitalism now? Is it only what suites you? Some can make money others not?
Your distrust of doctors, drug companies is disturbing to the point of being backwards. Lets all go back 100 years ago when you cut your finger or got strep and eventually died. Lets go back to were the flue killed tens and tens of thousands or TB or any other diseases thats killed so many and now we have cures for thanks to who?
Insane the attitudes some have today................

 

[ksurfer2]

The topic of this drug came up last night while I was having a conversation with the Chief of Police for the town I work for. We were chatting about a local resident who was known to us for having been increasingly problematic over the past couple of years. I have known this guy for almost 25 years and he was never a problem around town. This changed drastically and now he has multiple arrests for assaults, fights, and other outbursts. What the Chief was most concerned about was that this guy had starting using Kratum to self medicate for his chronic back pain. Apparently this drug is know in the law enforcement community as one that can cause behavioral changes that may not be in users best interest.

 

[biomedtechguy]

The topic of this drug came up last night while I was having a conversation with the Chief of Police for the town I work for. We were chatting about a local resident who was known to us for having been increasingly problematic over the past couple of years. I have known this guy for almost 25 years and he was never a problem around town. This changed drastically and now he has multiple arrests for assaults, fights, and other outbursts. What the Chief was most concerned about was that this guy had starting using Kratum to self medicate for his chronic back pain. Apparently this drug is know in the law enforcement community as one that can cause behavioral changes that may not be in users best interest.

Any other substances that the local resident has been using? Toxicology reports? Anything that you can add?
Thank you for the input.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Here's a GREAT article on Kratom and has multiple embedded links to really bring you up to date on all of the information you may want.
As has been said, BIG PHARMA is fighting it, as people find Kratom can help them ESCAPE from the trap that "licensed medical professionals" and "licensed, government approved DRUG DEALERS" have ensnared them in....
https://71republic.com/2019/02/16/nationwide-ban-kratom-deadly/

 

[mopar 3 B]

If not Kratom it will be something else. This has not been the first time or the last and as soon is the Big Pharm has it in their hands in will amazingly become acceptable.

 

[biomedtechguy]

expectable

I think you mean "acceptable" ?

 

[mopar 3 B]

I think you mean "acceptable" ?

correct. Thanks

 

[steve from staten island]

Since you dont trust "big pharm's" , "licensed medical professionals" and the FDA . Id suggest you throw out any and all prescription meds you've been given by your physician. Don't ever step foot in a doctors office again, let alone a hospital either.
Its obvious the distrust, animosity and suspicion, its all a conspiracy train of thought some have.
Pathetic.

 

[BeatersRus]

theres no line in the sand,steve...why get upset at him.
some drugs are good some are useless,some are harmful.
everyone and all these companies all have their own agendas,
and usually not for the good of the people,but the fat wallet instead.
very little Trust to be found in these wonder pills/drugs whatsoever.

so,theres no sense in saying things like "pathetic" to others opinions.

speaking of doctors..and hospitals.
lets add up the average time you spend actually Seeing a doctor at say the hospital.
average time is 3-7 minutes tops...thats for him seeing you twice during the entire visit,
the nurses and waiting room have you the rest of the time.
this doctor will be double booked as well,meaning hes getting paid double patients per hour,
as many as he can fit in there.
how good is the service you get in a brief 3-7 minute window?
and,when you get your bill,do you feel treated fairly?
im just curious as to your opinion.

ty to ksurfer2 for your reply.
ty also to biomed for the interesting topic.

 

[steve from staten island]

theres no line in the sand,steve...why get upset at him.
some drugs are good some are useless,some are harmful.
everyone and all these companies all have their own agendas,
and usually not for the good of the people,but the fat wallet instead.
very little Trust to be found in these wonder pills/drugs whatsoever.

so,theres no sense in saying things like "pathetic" to others opinions.

speaking of doctors..and hospitals.
lets add up the average time you spend actually Seeing a doctor at say the hospital.
average time is 3-7 minutes tops...thats for him seeing you twice during the entire visit,
the nurses and waiting room have you the rest of the time.
this doctor will be double booked as well,meaning hes getting paid double patients per hour,
as many as he can fit in there.
how good is the service you get in a brief 3-7 minute window?
and,when you get your bill,do you feel treated fairly?
im just curious as to your opinion.

ty to ksurfer2 for your reply.
ty also to biomed for the interesting topic.

Russ, do you know any MD's personally? I do, in fact several. No doctor that I know or one whose a dedicated one and not some quack pulls this double patients per hour getting paid stuff. Case in point is a pediatrician. You have children? They get sick, sore throats fever, ear aches and the like? What do you do, call the pediatrician of course. You and twenty something other people every day plus the regular scheduled appointments. So yes your time with the doctor is short and to the point and of course you waited for a hour with your sick kid and a room full of other crying sick kids. Its the same with my gastroenterologist who is excellent and saved my wife's life. Book with him and its a good hour wait, although they have gotten better lately
My wife goes to Sloan Memorial, one of the best cancer hospitals there is. They employe the best and brightest people to be found. My wife's surgeon and oncologist are top shelf with the credentials and education/experience to back it up. And you wait to see them, some times long. They never rush you and thats part of the reason. To answer your question I have never felt mistreated.
As far as getting upset, im not. Bio is and will always be a friend of mine from the FBBO forum. I never said this plant "K" was evil, bad or what have you. I did say it needs to be researched by people who know what they are doing. What I take issue with is the (his) always having suspect of people who make it their life long work to helping cure folks and dedicate there lives to doing so.
The other thing and know im not sticking up for them is these drug companies everyone seems to like finding fault with.
We live in a capitalist society and so these companies have investors and spend huge amounts of money to develop new drugs that make our lives better. These drugs enable people to live longer and everything else. Do they expect to profit? Damm straight and why not. Were would we be without them? Thats my take and have a great week

 

[BeatersRus]

i think you totally missed my point,but its cool.
i agree with what you said as well.

i have met quite a few docs actually,
because my former ex was a nurse,and i often talked with them.
i think you would be amazed at the amount of double bookings and other stuff.
for some doctors,its a huge payoff,for others,they care about the patients.

i can also state for a fact,it depends on where you go.
some hospitals are nothing more than the bare minimium of effort or caring,
while others,are outstanding,like the Sloan you mentioned.

over here in western ny,our good hospital would be Strong memorial.

 

[mopar 3 B]

Since you dont trust "big pharm's" , "licensed medical professionals" and the FDA . Id suggest you throw out any and all prescription meds you've been given by your physician. Don't ever step foot in a doctors office again, let alone a hospital either.
Its obvious the distrust, animosity and suspicion, its all a conspiracy train of thought some have.
Pathetic.

Go talk to your doctor Steve. He will be the first to tell you he would lose his medical license if he even mentioned using it. My doctor also knows me well enough to know if I find something that works prescription or not I will use it. That doesn't mean I will not tell him in advance and he will not tell me what he thinks. He can not bring it up or recommend it. You know there is stupid and them there is being just plain stupid. Quit lumping the two together.