Leaking compression fitting driving me nuts!

[bearman]

you can go to the parker store off 36st street and broadway. in phoenix they have the copper washers full line of fittings and if needed can make a hose if needed also. they also offer earls fittings also.

 

[bearman]

jic and sae also have two different thread pitch on the threads i do believe. could be wrong

 

[dsd1967]

Can you provide a picture of the bottom side of the original box fitting.

If I’m not mistaken the box uses a Saginaw flare. At the bottom of the box bore is a brass cone and typically the tube is double lap flared but uses a male thread nut. They make adapters that adapt to this port. The end of the adapter should have an inward cone.

The problem comes when the brass seat gets distorted and the thread bottoms out before the cones meet.

I don’t think it takes a copper washer at the hex of the adapter. If it did the box would be spotfaced for a sealing surface. Your box shows rough casting surface at that area.

Check for the brass insert at the bottom of the bore in the box. I’m not sure if those are replaceable/ readily available.

One way to check for sealing between surfaces is to mark them with a sharpie, snug tighten and rotate parts slightly to each other. The marker will wear off where contact is being made. Look for wear off around the entire sealing surface.

 

[dadsbee]

I didn't look at the box picture, but see what you're saying. Looks like it's coned inside and he had the wrong fitting on there to start with.

 

[Moparfiend]

Now I am getting confused again lol here are the pics

 

[dadsbee]

Well the fitting is definitely designed for a crush washer... but as dsd pointed out it looks like the steering box has a reverse cone down inside the threaded area that takes a male tube end, similar to what a brake master cylinder does. Someone possibly adapted your box with that fitting you have and a female hose end.

 

[Moparfiend]

Yeah where would a crush washer get crushed here? Tapered bottom, no shoulder. I am again befuddled......

 

[5.7 hemi]

That fitting IS NOT tapered to fit the box and you CANNOT just use the hose fitting to tighten to the box as it’s a female end. So, get a crush washer and use it, you’ll be fine without any leaks.

 

[miller]

These are the coned copper washers I was talking about.

 

[dsd1967]

I have to retract my statement and tend to agree with 5.7 and dadsbee. I was looking at the pictures with my phone last night and the bore of the box port looked to have the brass cone at the bottom....it was an optical illusion. Looking at the pictures on my work computer, the port looks to be a drilled bottom so it is not an inverted flare cone seat.

What still has me a bit confused is the top surface of the box port. The adapter looks like it would use the copper crush washer, but the box is not machined for a crush washer....it's still rough cast on that surface that would seal to the crush washer. The lead in on the port looks like it would be for an o-ring, but the adapter does not have a recess groove by the hex to accept an o-ring. I think I have a box at home that I can look at tonight to give you a better answer.

As far as 37 vs 45 flare, there are some unique tube flares that are "dual seat"....but your hose line is not one of those. The easiest way to figure out which you have is to take a sharpie and color the angled surface of each adapter. Tighten the 37 degree adapter (newer one) finger tight snug into the tube nut and rotate the adapter relative to the tube so that there is tube to sealing surface movement. Pull them apart and look at the wear pattern. If the tube is 45, and the adapter 37, there will be a thin line of contact near the very end of the cone seat of the adapter. If the tube is 37 and the adapter 37 then you should see random wear off on the entire cone seat of the adapter. Repeat the process with the 45 degree adapter (old one). If the tube is 37 and the adapter 45 then there will be a thin line of wear on the adapter cone seat close to the threads.

One way you can detect the difference in the cone seats between your two adapters is to put them cone seat to cone seat sealing surface. If you hold them in the same axis you will notice light between the cone seat surfaces. If you push the two sealing surfaces against each other, there will be an angle between adapter axis. From the pictures the old adapter is definitely 45 and the new 37 degrees. Unfortunately on some sizes, the thread forms interchanged between the two....and you have one that interchanges.

 

[Moparfiend]

I have to retract my statement and tend to agree with 5.7 and dadsbee. I was looking at the pictures with my phone last night and the bore of the box port looked to have the brass cone at the bottom....it was an optical illusion. Looking at the pictures on my work computer, the port looks to be a drilled bottom so it is not an inverted flare cone seat.

What still has me a bit confused is the top surface of the box port. The adapter looks like it would use the copper crush washer, but the box is not machined for a crush washer....it's still rough cast on that surface that would seal to the crush washer. The lead in on the port looks like it would be for an o-ring, but the adapter does not have a recess groove by the hex to accept an o-ring. I think I have a box at home that I can look at tonight to give you a better answer.

As far as 37 vs 45 flare, there are some unique tube flares that are "dual seat"....but your hose line is not one of those. The easiest way to figure out which you have is to take a sharpie and color the angled surface of each adapter. Tighten the 37 degree adapter (newer one) finger tight snug into the tube nut and rotate the adapter relative to the tube so that there is tube to sealing surface movement. Pull them apart and look at the wear pattern. If the tube is 45, and the adapter 37, there will be a thin line of contact near the very end of the cone seat of the adapter. If the tube is 37 and the adapter 37 then you should see random wear off on the entire cone seat of the adapter. Repeat the process with the 45 degree adapter (old one). If the tube is 37 and the adapter 45 then there will be a thin line of wear on the adapter cone seat close to the threads.

One way you can detect the difference in the cone seats between your two adapters is to put them cone seat to cone seat sealing surface. If you hold them in the same axis you will notice light between the cone seat surfaces. If you push the two sealing surfaces against each other, there will be an angle between adapter axis. From the pictures the old adapter is definitely 45 and the new 37 degrees. Unfortunately on some sizes, the thread forms interchanged between the two....and you have one that interchanges.

Dsd I look forward to see what your box looks like. Thank you!

 

[dsd1967]

The 69 service manual shows a gasket between the hex of the adapter and the valve body. I'm leaning more toward the copper crush washer. Hopefully I can confirm that tonight.

 

[dadsbee]

Staring at your pictures some more... it just looks like a crappy paint job on the box making it look rough around the fitting hole. Stuff a greasy piece of rag in the hole and take a flat file and run it across the fitting holes top to clean it. Crush gasket and fitting and get this car back on the road!

 

[dsd1967]

I'm in 100% agreement with dadsbee....where the paint is missing is a nice clean machined surface. You can see the toolmarks that indicate that surface is intended as a sealing surface. I originally thought that was metal smear due to the adapter going across the casting.

I think between the observations and the service manual pictures you are set. Find a crush gasket and use your old fitting. The service manual calls for 30 ft-lbs torque on that port.

 

[dsd1967]

Here’s a pic. Definitely a copper crush washer

 

[Moparfiend]

Yes! Thank you guys! I got the washer from Napa this evening and will get install it tomorrow nite and will hopefully report back on my success.

 

[gdrill]

It's about time! Geeeez.

 

[Moparfiend]

It's about time! Geeeez.

Lol right? Its the little things in life that makes us happy! Like washers and clean shoulder seats for them!

 

[kiwigtx]

These are the coned copper washers I was talking about.

View attachment 729796

They look like Bissell washers to me....not designed for use on the steering box.

 

[Moparfiend]

They look like Bissell washers to me....not designed for use on the steering box.

Ugggg WTF how many different kinds of crush washers are there lol. I guess I now need a lesson in crush washers 101 for idiots Guess what I get when I searched for a Bissell waher lol