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LemonWedge 470 build thread

Call Kevin Studaker at Total Seal. Let him know your combo.
Doug
 
LemonWedge said:
Question about rings: was going to go with standard moly rings; now looking at Total Seal gapless top-ring set. Is the gapless ring set worth the extra expense? The difference between them and the set I was considering prior is about $200. If it helps a Race application seal better at rpm, I suppose it’s worth it.

what’s the story on these, guys?
Click to expand...

People either love them or hate them. We use to use them on our engine masters engines with success. That was about the only time I seen them work ( on a dyno mule). I had a set in my hemi when I first built it and I pulled it back down and put a standard ring in it after I wasn’t happy with the ring seal. I did the machine work and honed the block to TS’s specs. Just the same as I did on our engine masters stuff. I wouldn’t recommend them personally, standard moly works just fine.
 
dvw said:
Call Kevin Studaker at Total Seal. Let him know your combo.
Doug
Click to expand...

Talked to Kevin at TS: he said “the gapless top-ring setup should be considered a race-only deal, and is really not appropriate for a Street / Strip type of build.“. He explained that the gapless top-ring will create so much more pan vacuum that it will pull oil from the top end and could create top-end oiling issues at slow engine speeds. Further explained that gapless 2nd ring is safer for a build that will see low RPM duty.
This is hard to quantify. Even a fully dedicated, 100% race only car is going to see considerably more time at idle and rolling through the pits than actual race time. While my car is 98% race these days, and sees very little street time (I don’t even own street tires for it) I find myself leery of the oil pull issue. On the flip-side, it’ll have roller lifters and roller rockers…. How much oil could it need?
hmmmm….. I suppose I’ll talk to my machinist again.

edit: Talked to my machinist. He’s used them and says he’s never seen issues arise, but also cannot identify any measurable performance gains. Says they are popular with the Stock Eliminator guys who are willing to pay for every last fraction of HP. Probably will just save the $$$ for somewhere else.

sorry to waste your time.…..
 
Last edited:
Kevin is very sharp and knows rings. I trust him. My race car doesn't use gapless. Even going from .043" to a .9mm showed very little if any gain.
Doug
 
Not to highjack this thread but here's my results from this weekend. I know mph doesn't match the ET but I'm happy

0814221819.jpg
 
We’ll, this build going to pick up speed now. The 452 breached a head gasket this past weekend for the 2nd time this year. I’m done for the year and it has most likely seen it’s last action.

I’ve now ordered my connecting rods. Went with Eagle H-beams with ARP2000 bolts. I’m also taking a serious look at investing in a set of TrickFlow 270’s.

I’ll continue to update here.
 
LemonWedge said:
We’ll, this build going to pick up speed now. The 452 breached a head gasket this past weekend for the 2nd time this year. I’m done for the year and it has most likely seen it’s last action
Click to expand...
Sorry to hear that. Do you know why it was blowing gaskets
 
LemonWedge said:
Question about rings: was going to go with standard moly rings; now looking at Total Seal gapless top-ring set. Is the gapless ring set worth the extra expense? The difference between them and the set I was considering prior is about $200. If it helps a Race application seal better at rpm, I suppose it’s worth it.

what’s the story on these, guys?
Click to expand...

You will never notice any difference between the gapless and a proper set of file fit Moly rings. I've bought every kind of ring set made and used vacuum pumps. For the average engine it's hard to beat a simple set of Moly rings.

Tom
 
67MPRFAN said:
Sorry to hear that. Do you know why it was blowing gaskets
Click to expand...


Not at this point. Have not removed the heads yet. Detonation is the only thing I can think would cause this, but i have no other evidence of that occurring. Plugs looked pretty good. Ill get started on the tear-down this weekend, and see what other things I may find.
 
I’ve been Gathering parts and plan on having things to the machine shop here soon. I’m now looking at heads and have mede the decision to invest in a set of TF270’s. So I’ll need to tackle the B-series MW intake dilemma. How good is the Indy intake? How tall is it? Would I be better off with that or re-working my current M1? Trickflow says their intake seals to the 270 heads and can be ported to fit them…. Is that a better option than the Indy? If I went that direction I’m sure I would inherit hood clearance issues, which means investing in a glass hood and scoop since I’m not going to cut my flawless factory hood. Lots to consider.

I’m sure this topic has been beat to death elsewhere, but please weigh in with your opinion.

BTW: My CNC’d Stealths, along with a few other items will be for sale if anyone is interested…. I’ll post them up in the ads section as soon as they’re availabl.

34C7212C-F9FC-466E-A489-889CA7BC0231.jpeg
 
Last edited:
A&A intake on trickflow 270's with 3705 carbs,,,fuel injection like throttle response. food for thought. with the intake raised appx 1" above the block eliminates alot of the typical crossram installation headaches...without air cleaners the hood would close .

IMG_0888.JPG
 
Indy intake with 2 inch carb spacer. With a 1 inch hood would close but carb vents almost touched. Also with 270 heads I'm using indys valley plate with removable ctr. Another thing to consider( just my opinion) but the 270's like to breathe so maybe think about stepping up to bigger headers. Did you ever determine why head gasket blew

0908221052.jpg
 
stage3 said:
A&A intake on trickflow 270's with 3705 carbs,,,fuel injection like throttle response. food for thought. with the intake raised appx 1" above the block eliminates alot of the typical crossram installation headaches...without air cleaners the hood would close .

View attachment 1339647
Click to expand...
While that look is undeniably Mopar Gold, and I love it….. I don’t currently have the $$$ for it, and I’m willing to bet the car would be faster with my single 4150 on any good single plane (debatable).
 
LemonWedge said:
While that look is undeniably Mopar Gold, and I love it….. I don’t currently have the $$$ for it, and I’m willing to bet the car would be faster with my single 4150 on any good single plane (debatable).
Click to expand...
i agree,,,because these stock 440 blocks r on borrowed time above 700 HP its like a cork in the system...as i am told. with my combo, roller everything, in a thread i posted on Max wedge powerhouse, they made 728 HP @ 5900. and mines almost identical..but 10 seconds is 10 seconds....
 
I'm using the "top" TF 270s on my 572. Solid roller, w/1.6 T&D cam lift around .665 w/.022 lash already subtracted.
Starting out w/Promax modded Holley 6bbl carbs on Indy ModMan intake CNC'd for Max Wedge ports.
Hoping it fits under N96 hood.
F&B is the next upgrade IF I ever feel the need, 3x2 TB/DPI setup.
BUT
If I ever gave up on my insistence for a 6bbl, I have to admit a ported A&A 2x4 sure is tempting...
 
My Indy Max Wedge seems to work great on my Indy heads. I bet it would be good on the 270TF's. It is pretty tall. I had to do a lot to get under my hood with a tall
'66 HEMI scoop.
 
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