Looks like my cam and lifters are wearing out

[RemCharger]

Will be interesting to see the results. Maybe a bit more tq to get it moving

 

[1 Wild R/T]

New Cam
Comp 23-230–4 Solid Flat Tappet
In Ex
.488 .501 Valve Lift 1.500 Rocker Ratio
.339 .356 Lobe Lift
230 236 Duration at .050
268 274 Advertised Duration

I am hoping to not lose to much power with this, but these Xtreme Energy cams have a good reputation.
I needed to lose som duration to ensure the valve to piston isn't an issue.
I'm also hoping that solid lifters will be better.

What's done is done, if I were installing a SFT cam these days I'd opt for the lifters with the EDM oil hole that applies oil directly to the face of the lifter..

DODGE Howards Cams 91718 Howards Cams Direct Lube Extreme-Duty Mechanical Lifters | Summit Racing

 

[Snook]

I did a little more measuring tonight but It's really a pain with the engine in the car. I had to stop befor I knocked a hole in the radiator turning the engine.
(Does anybody make a crank bolt with an extended hex?)
I also took pictures of all of the lobes at the nose.

Exhaust should be .356
Exhaust #3 measured .366 lobe lift, which doesn't make sense, maybe I counted wrong on the indicator. The wear looked ok
Exhaust #7 measured .353, but the wear over the nose looks excessive.

Overall 6 lobes looked like they have excessive wear over the nose.



View attachment 1833899View attachment 1833900View attachment 1833901View attachment 1833902

Toasted...

Chuck (snook)

 

[LSS&B]

New Cam
Comp 23-230–4 Solid Flat Tappet
In Ex
.488 .501 Valve Lift 1.500 Rocker Ratio
.339 .356 Lobe Lift
230 236 Duration at .050
268 274 Advertised Duration

I am hoping to not lose to much power with this, but these Xtreme Energy cams have a good reputation.
I needed to lose som duration to ensure the valve to piston isn't an issue.
I'm also hoping that solid lifters will be better.

I hope for good things too. Would be nice to find a good quality cam among all the flat tappet problems.
I talked to one machine shop that said they will not a build a short block with a flat tappet cam unless the buyer signs a paper to relinquish warranty from the machine shop. Shop owner claimed a 70% failure rate on flat tappet cams. He then strongly recommended a roller cam
Then there are threads like this:
Are Comp Cams really as bad as they sound?

 

[Geoff 2]

Padam,
The sol lifters are made from the same crap metal in the same crap-py factory as the hyd lifters...& will fail the same way. Find some solids that are pre 1995; if not new, have them re-faced. These will probably be hard to find. I believe you could use 318 Poly or early 273 lifters, possibly slant 6 lifters. May require trip to the junk yard....still easier than replacing another cam.
As long the oil band does not drop below the lifter bore while the lifter is on the base circle...or is exposed at max lift, you will be ok. You may need different prods, but that is a cheap price to pay for reliability. You do not need the EDM hole, the mod below I have been doing with a Dremel for decades & it does the same thing.

 

[padam]

I bought a set of lifters awhile back that are supposed to be NOS Johnson lifters. I’m not sure about that, as the part number doesn’t come up.

They match photos in the old Direct Connection catalogs.

 

[PRHeads]

The MP solid lifters are .0005”(1/2 a thou) undersize, which may help you determine if that’s in fact what they are.
Also, my recollection is that they had a little bit of yellow paint up on the top.

Remember to pull the inner springs for cam break in.

 

[padam]

The MP solid lifters are .0005”(1/2 a thou) undersize, which may help you determine if that’s in fact what they are.
Also, my recollection is that they had a little bit of yellow paint up on the top.

Remember to pull the inner springs for cam break in.

They are .9038. That’s a good .0005 smaller than the Rhoads lifters that were in it.

I just have single springs.

 

[Moparfever65]

I don't know, they look okay to me. The areas that wear aren't showing grooves you see when the lifters aren't spinning. I'd be more concerned about what looks like some corrosion going on. Maybe too much zinc? The areas of the cam that don't wear are starting to look like the cast iron that it is.

 

[PRHeads]

I looked thru my stash of used lifters……
I have some that look just like yours…..they’re .9038-.9040.

The ones I’m pretty sure are MP have a snap ring retaining the pushrod seat, yellow paint on top, and are .9030-.9032.

 

[padam]

I looked thru my stash of used lifters……
I have some that look just like yours…..they’re .9038-.9040.

The ones I’m pretty sure are MP have a snap ring retaining the pushrod seat, yellow paint on top, and are .9030-.9032.

These ones are plain solid, no snap ring. They have a smooth finish on the face, kind of matte gray, pretty consistent.0025” crown.
The newer lifters I have seen have a swirl finish that looks like it came from an abrasive disk.

I have measurements on both cam’s, I’ll post later today.

 

[PRHeads]

First pic……. Lifter I was running in my 383.
I’m pretty sure it’s a Comp 2921-16 from the very early 2000’s.

Second pic…… MP P2843177 from the mid-90’s

 

[padam]

First pic……. Lifter I was running in my 383.
I’m pretty sure it’s a Comp 2921-16 from the very early 2000’s.

Second pic…… MP P2843177 from the mid-90’s

View attachment 1835672

View attachment 1835674

Mine look like your Comps.

 

[padam]

I test assembled the cam, lifters, and pushrods. I’ve heard that there should be only 1-2 threads showing under the rocker arm. Is that the case?

 

[PRHeads]

One to Two threads showing is the norm for those rockers.

The pushrod cup height difference between the hyd/solid lifters is about .250”.

 

[padam]

One to Two threads showing is the norm for those rockers.

The pushrod cup height difference between the hyd/solid lifters is about .250”.

That’s just what it looks like to me.

 

[padam]

Cam Post-Mortem:
Below are the measurements from the Lunati Cam.
Note that some of the measurements on the base circle are bigger this time. I'm going to say its human error on my part, trying to find the proper spot to measure.
At any rate, the numbers in red are the problem, they pretty much coincide with the worn lifters, and the lobes that look the worst.
I'm going to say that I caught this at the right time, and it is in the initial stages of failure. How much longer it would last is anybody's guess.

FYI, a little more background.
This cam was installed in 2021, whe the engine was rebuilt.
The previous cam was a Direct Connection P4120235 .284/484 hydraulic installed in 1985. I had the top end aprt in the early 90's and noticed some of the lifter faces were starting to get concave. I didn't know how serious that was at the time so put it back together and raced it like that for till about 1998.
I didn't drive it much after that, but when I did it seemed to run rough and had a miss that I could never track down.
When I pulled it aprt in 2021, there were 2 lobes completely wiped.

This Lunati Cam was installed and broken in according to the instructions. I used Gibbs Racing break-in oil, and after break-in I always used Gibbs oil.
The springs used were a single spring installed within specs.
Seat Ld Open Ld
Intake 115 289
Exhaust 118 292

I did have a little issue with coolant seeping past the head gasket.
I noticed it last year when installing new rocker arms. The coolant was leaking from rear corner of the right head. When I noticed it there was coolant laying in the lifter valley there. I'm sure that didn't do the lifters any favors. I installed new head gaskets, and no more coolant leaks.
I know I had all of the lifters out at that time and did not notice the wear I found this year.

So, onward and upward. I'm not having a warm-fuzzy about installing another FT cam.
Probably be the last one. If it lasts me the season, next one will be a roller.

 

[padam]

I also want to put the word out that my Crane ductile iron rockets still look good.
These are the ones I bought and a bunch were soft on the valve end. I torch hardened them, and it seems to have worked. Easy enough fix.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Like this stuff on cam/lifters. Moly-kote G

 

[Curiousyellow71]

Cam Post-Mortem:
Below are the measurements from the Lunati Cam.
Note that some of the measurements on the base circle are bigger this time. I'm going to say its human error on my part, trying to find the proper spot to measure.
At any rate, the numbers in red are the problem, they pretty much coincide with the worn lifters, and the lobes that look the worst.
I'm going to say that I caught this at the right time, and it is in the initial stages of failure. How much longer it would last is anybody's guess.

View attachment 1835813


FYI, a little more background.
This cam was installed in 2021, whe the engine was rebuilt.
The previous cam was a Direct Connection P4120235 .284/484 hydraulic installed in 1985. I had the top end aprt in the early 90's and noticed some of the lifter faces were starting to get concave. I didn't know how serious that was at the time so put it back together and raced it like that for till about 1998.
I didn't drive it much after that, but when I did it seemed to run rough and had a miss that I could never track down.
When I pulled it aprt in 2021, there were 2 lobes completely wiped.

This Lunati Cam was installed and broken in according to the instructions. I used Gibbs Racing break-in oil, and after break-in I always used Gibbs oil.
The springs used were a single spring installed within specs.
Seat Ld Open Ld
Intake 115 289
Exhaust 118 292

I did have a little issue with coolant seeping past the head gasket.
I noticed it last year when installing new rocker arms. The coolant was leaking from rear corner of the right head. When I noticed it there was coolant laying in the lifter valley there. I'm sure that didn't do the lifters any favors. I installed new head gaskets, and no more coolant leaks.
I know I had all of the lifters out at that time and did not notice the wear I found this year.

So, onward and upward. I'm not having a warm-fuzzy about installing another FT cam.
Probably be the last one. If it lasts me the season, next one will be a roller.

You did good catching this before it took out a lobe. I hoped the rhoads being hy-lift Johnsons bodies would get the job done, we have a set on the shelf. The last several years, we have been snatching up roller cam deals as we come across them trying to get away from flat tappets. One thing I don't miss is breaking in flat tappets with single springs only to have to take the engine apart to put the inner spring in....and if you have a single spring you don't have that option. Roller cam you start it and go.
It will be interesting to see how the solid cam compares. Maybe you can gain at the 60'.