Loud and scary noises coming from my 440...

['67Satellite]

Oil pump off... no carnage. Not even a little. Im out of ideas guys. I really dont want to put this back together without knowing for sure.

 

[70rr-brian]

What is that plate looking thing on the left valve cover? Is there a PCV valve under that thing? If so where is it connect to? And if so have you tested with it removed? I noticed your dipstick tube is popped up as well... Just curious.

Also do my eyes deceive me or is that vacuum advance hose short and at a 90 degree angle?

Clutch fan? But I am guessing you eliminated that with the water pump removal.

I am obviously throwing kitchen sink ideas out at this point.

 

[fmontez1]

Just throwing out another idea. . . Have you tried the old "Listening with a stethoscope" trick? Whenever I try to figure out what a noise is, I always start by figuring out if its running in time with the crank, or with the valve train. . . .this sounded like Crank time to me. . . . I no theres no real clicking or anything, but all the more reason. . it seems to be happening all the time.

Anyway, just came to throw out the old "Listen with a screwdriver or stethoscope" trick.

Good luck man. I hate these kinds of issues.

EDIT: By the way, totally subscribed to this, we are ALL gonna learn something from this, so please keep us updated!

 

[1962polara]

I was always taught NEVER to use silicone around auto trans as it could detach and become a foreign body .Having said that is there a chance something found its way into the converter and is rubbing on the blades(turbines)?

View attachment 142276

 

[D575]

I think it's time to drop the pan . oh by the way , is there a windage tray ? It might be rubbing on the crank.

 

['67Satellite]

Just throwing out another idea. . . Have you tried the old "Listening with a stethoscope" trick? Whenever I try to figure out what a noise is, I always start by figuring out if its running in time with the crank, or with the valve train. . . .this sounded like Crank time to me. . . . I no theres no real clicking or anything, but all the more reason. . it seems to be happening all the time.

Anyway, just came to throw out the old "Listen with a screwdriver or stethoscope" trick.

Good luck man. I hate these kinds of issues.

EDIT: By the way, totally subscribed to this, we are ALL gonna learn something from this, so please keep us updated!

Well i hope we can figure it out. Its really quite loud, and very difficult to locate because of that. I do have a stethoscope but havent used it. The noise initially sounded like it was coming from the front of the engine. Ive ruled out everything up there except for main bearings. I think if it keeps going like this, ill be pulling the motor back out and checking the crank. But i really really dont want to.

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I think it's time to drop the pan . oh by the way , is there a windage tray ? It might be rubbing on the crank.

Havent touched the pan since it ran last, but that time is fast approaching...

 

[snakeoil24]

Did you check end play between torque converter face and flex plate when converter is pushed all the way into trans? it should be a minimum of .250 inch. Another way to check is push converter into trans carefully till it locks. Then measure with a straight edge from the mounting lugs how far recessed into trans converter sits. if it is less then this amount then check for bent flex plate. You may have used a big block flex plate on small block. If this turns out ok. then pull oil pan and check thrust bearing face surface for destruction. this can be seen without pulling crank. if the Converter face does not have this free play, it destroys the thurst bearing face. i f you can not get a good look then your going to have to drop the thrust bearing cap. Do you remember if the re builder set the thrust bearing? it is done with a Brass block held on the snout of crank, with one rap of a sledge hammer to seat the thrust surface. A light rap

 

['67Satellite]

Did you check end play between torque converter face and flex plate when converter is pushed all the way into trans? it should be a minimum of .250 inch. Another way to check is push converter into trans carefully till it locks. Then measure with a straight edge from the mounting lugs how far recessed into trans converter sits. if it is less then this amount then check for bent flex plate. You may have used a big block flex plate on small block. If this turns out ok. then pull oil pan and check thrust bearing face surface for destruction. this can be seen without pulling crank. if the Converter face does not have this free play, it destroys the thurst bearing face. i f you can not get a good look then your going to have to drop the thrust bearing cap. Do you remember if the re builder set the thrust bearing? it is done with a Brass block held on the snout of crank, with one rap of a sledge hammer to seat the thrust surface. A light rap

Ill check that clearence for the torque converter. As far as the thrust bearing, the short block was assembled by a trustworthy machine shop. And ive never had an issue before.

 

[daredevil]

If I remember right you can the spring when you install a shift kit.

 

[khryslerkid]

Have you checked the flex plate bolts? I noticed in the picture that there are two different headed bolts from the others. There is not much clearance behind the crank flange for too long of a bolt...

 

[daredevil]

What comp cam did you use? Is it billet and requires the bronze gear? The sound is similar to a drill spinning.

 

['67Satellite]

What comp cam did you use? Is it billet and requires the bronze gear? The sound is similar to a drill spinning.

Cast cam with factory iron intermediate shaft. And those are the flex plate bolts that ran on the car before. Im really starting to get bummed out about this damn thing. Horrible thoughts going through my head aboit getting something else...

 

[snakeoil24]

Did you start engine with trans out of car? If you did and noise is still their then pull cam gear and see if its hitting block. If not then you have to pull intermediate shaft and check for wear and also the broze fitting in block.

 

[BIGSHCLUNK]

If its the groove I think you guys are talking about, its normal. About half inch or so from end of shaft?

I've seen a bunch of them like this

 

[khryslerkid]

Hey look at it as a challenge. And it is! It could be a customers car and they keep calling you everyday. Been there! You'll find it.
If you decide to reinstall the trans, fire it up and see how low you can set the idle without stalling. A lot slower rpm might highlight where the sound is coming from. It definitely sounds like a 800 to 1000 rpm noise. Not a slower moving part. These things are a process of elimination. You're getting there!

 

['67Satellite]

Did you start engine with trans out of car? If you did and noise is still their then pull cam gear and see if its hitting block. If not then you have to pull intermediate shaft and check for wear and also the broze fitting in block.

I dont have a four speed flywheel to allow me to run the motor sans the transmission. I did notice, while inspecting the front of the motor, namely the timing gears. The cam gear did seem a little tight. But i think it could be decieving just how the engine is constructed. Is it possible for tbe cam to have back into the hole?

Also, brand new intermediate shaft bushing. Bronze.

 

[krowbar]

I worked on a 305 Chevy that had horrendous blow-by. Took the pistons out and marked which cylinders on the rods and caps,but I didn't note the direction they were facing. Some idiot put the rings in but had the gaps lines up,so I rotated the rings to the correct offset. Put the pistons back in the correct direction according to the shop manual. Well the idiot that put the rings in put the rods on 180° out on the piston. I didn't realize that until I took the heads and pan back off because the motor locked up. The rods and caps had a chamfer on them so they could only go one direction on the crank. The so called buddy I did that for still hasn't talked to me. Lol

 

[D575]

Can you turn the motor easily by hand or with a breaker bar ? it really sounds like something is tight or binding when you shut off the motor.

 

['67Satellite]

Can you turn the motor easily by hand or with a breaker bar ? it really sounds like something is tight or binding when you shut off the motor.

Yea, turns over fine by hand. We spun it over with no plugs to see if i could here it at all without the motor running. And all i could really hear was the starter. No grinding like it makes while it's running. I'm pretty much out of ideas. Tonight i'll pull the timing cover back off and check the clearance between the cam gear and the block. If i don't find anything there, i'm pulling the motor as soon as i can get help and checking the bearings.

Not what I expected to be doing. All i've been worried about is getting brakes and interior in this car so i can drive it. The only sure bet i had was the motor and trans because it was fine in the last car. And here we are...

 

[krowbar]

Yea, turns over fine by hand. We spun it over with no plugs to see if i could here it at all without the motor running. And all i could really hear was the starter. No grinding like it makes while it's running. I'm pretty much out of ideas. Tonight i'll pull the timing cover back off and check the clearance between the cam gear and the block. If i don't find anything there, i'm pulling the motor as soon as i can get help and checking the bearings.

Not what I expected to be doing. All i've been worried about is getting brakes and interior in this car so i can drive it. The only sure bet i had was the motor and trans because it was fine in the last car. And here we are...

Why are you hearing the starter when you turn it over by hand?