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Loud and scary noises coming from my 440...

If it was the Oil Slinger, it would look like this....:angryfire: This came out of my first 383 but it didn't appear to be making the kind of noise you are experiencing. But there is something going on . From what I can see in your pics, the bottom looks to be in really good shape and tolerances appear to be within range by just looking at the pics....Sure can be a "MIND F**K" can't it?????:icon_eyes:
 

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What about the cam bearings? Are they new and who installed them? It's real easy to mess them up.Good luck.
 
In the OP's first post, he didn't specify what the Comp cam was, is it roller cam? Was a thrust button put on to prevent cam walk? If not, could it be the timing chain bolts?

fmontez1 said:
OP sounds pretty sure it's not the timing cover, but methinks it needs to come off at this point.
Click to expand...
 
440beep said:
In the OP's first post, he didn't specify what the Comp cam was, is it roller cam? Was a thrust button put on to prevent cam walk? If not, could it be the timing chain bolts?
Click to expand...

Hydraulic flat tappett. Cast iron, with steel intermediate shaft.
 
You guys know anything about bearing wear? Not to crazy to me, but definitely some wear. In order from left to right 1-4. Detail is of the number 3 thrust bearing. Crank looks really good, no marks. Ill get back into the timing cover tomorrow.
0930132109.jpg0930132108.jpg
 
The thurst bearing side face is what your most worried about. The wear patterns look typical for enough oil at one end but not at the opposite end. Look at the side face of thrust bearing. Your noise is not coming from these pictures. But the Engine builder may not have put the caps back in the right locations.. Your going to have to keep looking. Look at the back side of the big timing gear for strange wear and the face of the thrust bearing.
 
snakeoil24 said:
The thurst bearing side face is what your most worried about. The wear patterns look typical for enough oil at one end but not at the opposite end. Look at the side face of thrust bearing. Your noise is not coming from these pictures. But the Engine builder may not have put the caps back in the right locations.. Your going to have to keep looking. Look at the back side of the big timing gear for strange wear and the face of the thrust bearing.
Click to expand...

Thanks, the "thrust faces" of the thrust bearing look good. Nothing crazy. I will be getting back into the timing cover and actually pulling the timing set off this time around. And as you said, look at the face of the cam gear to see if it's been getting "friendly" with my block. I didn't want to pull this apart so far. But here we are...
 
Stop right there!!!!! Those bearings (2,3,4) are destroyed! If what I'm seeing in the closeup pic is what I think it is you found the problem - or at least you found a problem. Major surface irregularities and fine grooves on the bearings that supposedly have a few hundred miles on them is not normal. #1 looks like what you might expect but even that one has an unusual wear pattern. I was hoping I could catch you before you got this far but I'll ask the question anyway. Were you able to turn the crank freely after all the pistons were removed? You should be able to with one finger turn the crank. Not a pry bar! No major force to apply. I suspect a couple of things: Crank journals are not sized properly to the bearings. Crank is bent. Main bores were not properly align honed (too tight causing too much bearing crush).

Insert the upper bearing shell from #1 and #5 back in the block and set the crank in. Get a dial indicator with a mag base and check each journal for runout. You want zero or really close to it and I would say over .0025" is too much. Specs are in the FSM. Also measure each journal with a mic and the bore of each main with and without the bearing (from that journal). Or take the whole mess to a machine shop and let them check it.

I bet most of that sludge in the pan is the babbitt from the bearings.
 
That's what I thought Meep, those bearings aren't supposed to shine.
 
Meep-Meep said:
Stop right there!!!!! Those bearings (2,3,4) are destroyed! If what I'm seeing in the closeup pic is what I think it is you found the problem - or at least you found a problem. Major surface irregularities and fine grooves on the bearings that supposedly have a few hundred miles on them is not normal. #1 looks like what you might expect but even that one has an unusual wear pattern. I was hoping I could catch you before you got this far but I'll ask the question anyway. Were you able to turn the crank freely after all the pistons were removed? You should be able to with one finger turn the crank. Not a pry bar! No major force to apply. I suspect a couple of things: Crank journals are not sized properly to the bearings. Crank is bent. Main bores were not properly align honed (too tight causing too much bearing crush).

Insert the upper bearing shell from #1 and #5 back in the block and set the crank in. Get a dial indicator with a mag base and check each journal for runout. You want zero or really close to it and I would say over .0025" is too much. Specs are in the FSM. Also measure each journal with a mic and the bore of each main with and without the bearing (from that journal). Or take the whole mess to a machine shop and let them check it.

I bet most of that sludge in the pan is the babbitt from the bearings.
Click to expand...

Ok... Well I know there should be virtually no contact with these bearings and the crank. But I assume there's going to be some wear. These do look a little worse for wear. But i'm having a hard time believing that these bearings were quiet in the last car, and noisy in this one. Of course, there could still be another issue.

For now, it looks like i'll keep digging and looking for the squealing issue. But it seems like i'll be replacing some bearings too, assuming everything mic's out good.

So, tear down completely and check how the crank spins with no pistons? And take some measurements...

This is killing me guys, I'm leaning back towards finding a new hobby. Maybe building ships in a bottle:angryfire:
 
Yes, use the block as a crank checking fixture off of #1 and #5 bearing. The measurements that need to be done are very precise so unless you have some micrometers you will need to take to a shop. Even a general machine shop for measurements will be good.

Another question. Do the main journals in the block appear to have hone marks? You know, cross hatch like a cylinder? If so then it has been align honed and very possible the #2 back is undersize. The factory journals are not cross hatched. Long ago I pulled one of my motors apart after 5000 miles and the bearings had almost no scuff wear.

I agree the squeal is rather puzzling, and not consistent with what has been seen or how it ran before, but at this point I'm not ruling out anything. Fix the block and crank, check the cam bore and bearings, get new bearings and before assy we can guide you through what you are supposed to do and how things should feel as they go together. Or there is always the ship in the bottle....
 
Since ya have it out, and based on the sludge and the condition of the main bearings, try taking the oil pump apart and see what that looks like. That could very well be the source of the noise. I personally have never heard that noise from an oil pump, but it would be stupid not to check.
 
I'll tell ya something else I noticed in your video. When the motor was shut off it stopped almost immediately. I discounted that at first thinking it was a very fresh build, but now looking at the crank I can see why. I think you are onto the problem.
 
Meep-Meep said:
I'll tell ya something else I noticed in your video. When the motor was shut off it stopped almost immediately. I discounted that at first thinking it was a very fresh build, but now looking at the crank I can see why. I think you are onto the problem.
Click to expand...

So Meep, youd advise pulling the whole motor apart and checking all the bearings? At this point, im thinking the same thing. I dont have money to fix it. But i guess i can find time to tear it down completely and find all the issues i left in there when I was a teenager.

Maybe thats the way to go at this point.
 
Meep is right, you have to check all measurements. I thought a few of your main caps where switched. The squeal does not make sense from the bearings but every day we see some thing new.
 
The amount of bearing material in pan there will be a build up on rotors in oil pump
and like gears that are too tight they squeal

motor needs complete cleaning as in oil galleys and bearing replaced

as earlier posts have it measured and not with plastigage as it is only a guide and not accurate
 
Yep, tear it down. You are pretty much there so no reason to stop now. It's really just cleaning and measuring, which doesn't cost a lot. If this engine is too screwed up maybe you can find a good runner to detail and drop in. Even some of those motor home 440's can be good after a gasket and soft plug rebuild.
 
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