MLS Cometic Vs Felpro 1009 with Aluminum Heads

[lewtot184]

I don't think any of the mopar felpro gaskets have stainless fire rings; unless something has changed. I think some Chevy gaskets do have a stainless steel ring. The mopar gaskets I've used are just tin plated carbon steel. Stainless is a plus. The o-ring wire in some gaskets won't save your butt on burn thru. I use 8519 on both my engines without any issue, I'm not racing either car. The marine gasket may be more durable in a street/ strip combo. I used the 1039 in a 12.5:1 race 470 and it was bullet proof. The 1009 in the race engine torched the heads in just a few passes. Torching the heads is a pain in the ***; welding, machining, gaskets, seals, a lot of 4 letter words, etc.

 

[Road Grabber]

I will call them. The graphite listed in the catalog says it is a 4.10 bore. The composite says it is a 4.500 bore. Have you used a graphite gasket 4.500?

 

[Road Grabber]

I don't think any of the mopar felpro gaskets have stainless fire rings; unless something has changed. I think some Chevy gaskets do have a stainless steel ring. The mopar gaskets I've used are just tin plated carbon steel. Stainless is a plus. The o-ring wire in some gaskets won't save your butt on burn thru. I use 8519 on both my engines without any issue, I'm not racing either car. The marine gasket may be more durable in a street/ strip combo. I used the 1039 in a 12.5:1 race 470 and it was bullet proof. The 1009 in the race engine torched the heads in just a few passes. Torching the heads is a pain in the ***; welding, machining, gaskets, seals, a lot of 4 letter words, etc.

Thanks for the heads up!

 

[Road Grabber]

I don't think any of the mopar felpro gaskets have stainless fire rings; unless something has changed. I think some Chevy gaskets do have a stainless steel ring. The mopar gaskets I've used are just tin plated carbon steel. Stainless is a plus. The o-ring wire in some gaskets won't save your butt on burn thru. I use 8519 on both my engines without any issue, I'm not racing either car. The marine gasket may be more durable in a street/ strip combo. I used the 1039 in a 12.5:1 race 470 and it was bullet proof. The 1009 in the race engine torched the heads in just a few passes. Torching the heads is a pain in the ***; welding, machining, gaskets, seals, a lot of 4 letter words, etc.

Were the heads you used aluminum? Do any of those gaskets have stainless rings?

 

[lewtot184]

Were the heads you used aluminum? Do any of those gaskets have stainless rings?

Stage 6 heads. No stainless fire ring that I remember. It's been some years back and I doubt stainless was used then. It definitely left a lasting impression on me. Lot of repair work. A problem with stainless steel is that it doesn't conform easely . Your bore size and chamfer are big players.

 

[pnora]

Stage 6 heads. No stainless fire ring that I remember. It's been some years back and I doubt stainless was used then. It definitely left a lasting impression on me. Lot of repair work. A problem with stainless steel is that it doesn't conform easely . Your bore size and chamfer are big players.

I ran the stage 6 with a 300 nitrous hit. Ran them for a few years and zero issues with the 1009 gaskets. Of course I made sure they were not into the chamber. There was some discussions about detonation and the ones with close proximity to the bore might of contributed to the failures.

 

[Road Grabber]

If I understand this, a fire ring not hanging over but close to the edge of the bore/chamber can cause detonation because the ring glows hot?

 

[gtxrt]

I will call them. The graphite listed in the catalog says it is a 4.10 bore. The composite says it is a 4.500 bore. Have you used a graphite gasket 4.500?

it cant be 4.10 bore the stock 440 is 4.320 bore. I have the mahle in my 4.35 .030 over 440 now.

 

[gtxrt]

the victor and the Mahle are the same victor just calls them composite they are graphite composite. composite means combination. they get 10.00 more than the ones they make for mahle so they have to make them sound different.

 

[Road Grabber]

it cant be 4.10 bore the stock 440 is 4.320 bore. I have the mahle in my 4.35 .030 over 440 now.

The online catalog must be wrong. I’ll have to call them.
The catalog does list graphite gasket. It says 4.180 but there is no selection for engine size.

 

[Road Grabber]

Thanks for all of the input and discussion about the head gaskets to choose from when using aluminum heads on a cast iron block. I appreciate all of the experience comments and feedback.

Different gaskets mentioned have been successful for some and that's good to hear. Especially coming from those who have had direct experience with using gaskets that have failed and then switched to a more successful gasket.

After calling Mahle and speaking with their tech advisor I've made a decision to use their 3464SG head gasket. This gasket is a graphite gasket. It was recommended for my situation for a few reasons:

1. Graphite is the better choice given the cast iron and aluminum dissimilar metals. The graphite allows the metals to "slide" between each other when they expand differently.
2. Graphite is an excellent heat conductor.
3. The 3464SG gasket has a 4.430 bore which is .080 larger than the .030 over bored 4.350 bore block diameter. This allows an addition .080 for the ring and combustion chamber to seal properly. The gasket compresses to .045 - a bit thicker than the Felpro .039 compressed - not a big sacrifice.
4. The gasket does not have a fire ring with an integrated ring. My engine is 10.5 to 1 and does not need a fire ring. An integrated ring is recommended for engines 12.5 to 1 and over to allow for more clamping force.
5. I do not have the smooth surface requirements to allow use of an MLS gasket.

Other takeaways mentioned -

The tech advisor who had been working for Mahle for over 20 years said head bolts take up 30% of the clamping force. The other 70% is due to thermal expansion of the materials. When for instance an engine overheats the added expansion will not allow the gasket to seal again once the materials cool down because the gasket will not rebound enough to seal.

Engine compression over 12.5 to 1 use a ring in the fire ring. This gaskets with the ring are not recommended for the aluminum heads because that ring with create depressions in the softer aluminum material. Depressions in aluminum head caused by gaskets has been mentioned in other aluminum head application situations.

Mahle used to make a 440 marine gasket but is no longer available. The marine gaskets use a stainless core and fire rings.

I hope this post helps others. Again I appreciate the responses.