I’m planning on building one of my engines for my 66 Charger. Both engines will be attached to a 727 torqueflite. I need help with building either engines I’m looking at street and quarter mile monster. I’m looking at punching an 04 5.7 hemi to a 392 or a 440 out to a 528. What’s your guys honest opinion on the engines and which is worth it?
Need help on engine decision
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RemCharger
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Hard to say because no one has punched either of those motors that far. Usually 0.060" is the max.
496 polara
Well-Known Member
Depends on your budget and what parts you may already have. Either is fine and neither will be cheap.Pump gas go with the big block.Boost go with a modern hemi.
A 66 Charger should have an old school engine.Just my opinion.
A 66 Charger should have an old school engine.Just my opinion.
I know 440 source sells the stroker kit to go .030” and MMP has the 392 stroker with the same .030” over
I was thinking about boosting down the road wanted to do a streetable 1000 horses and road trip down Route 66. I really like the idea of boosted Bill Mitchell big block
agree .... those chargers are a part of history.... the interiors are unreal ...... 383 .... 426
I have a 526 stroker ... 440 block with 440Source kit, solid roller cam, Indy EZ-1 heads (MW ports), yadda, yadda, yadda. Built it quite a while ago. If doing it today I'd just go with a gen 3 hemi. For what I have in my stroker I could have bought a Gen II hemi !!
RemCharger
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Oh ok. Ya a 440 " punched" to 30 over is about 446 . I see you mean stroked, not punched.
Carry on !
Curiousyellow71
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If your doing a newer hemi, the 09 and later is a better engine.
Big block MOPAR is my favorite engine. Tons of torque and a great design. I would rather work on a BB. One of the bad things of these newer engine designs require the heads to be pulled to work on the cam.
It's my preference to see a bb under the hood of a b body. I do understand the reasons to do the gen 3 hemi swap if you plan on driving it lots of miles, 1000hp doesn't seem to fit that.
Big block MOPAR is my favorite engine. Tons of torque and a great design. I would rather work on a BB. One of the bad things of these newer engine designs require the heads to be pulled to work on the cam.
It's my preference to see a bb under the hood of a b body. I do understand the reasons to do the gen 3 hemi swap if you plan on driving it lots of miles, 1000hp doesn't seem to fit that.
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451Mopar
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The AFR Black Hawk 224 CNC Gen 3 heads are advertised to flow 390 cfm @ 0.700" lift
The 212 head looks good too, with a bit better low lift flow @ 0.400" and below. 0.500" is almost the same. Just thinking of swaps with stock cam.
The heads are a bit pricy $2,041 each, but come fully assembled with good parts.
Ported Big Block Mopar heads that flow 390 @ 0.700" are going to cost about the same. Thinking of what my Hughes CNC ported Victor MW heads cost, plus springs, retainers and such.
Just thinking that with heads that flow and cost about the same, likely not a big difference in peak power so looking at other considerations.
The early 5.7 heads are nothing special, the later Apache heads are really good. CNC ported flow around what the Trick Flow big block heads flow.
The larger CID of the big block would have more low end torque and wouldn't have to rev as high as the smaller Gen 3 engine.
Aftermarket roller rocker arms for the Gen 3 hemi can get expensive, 4 shafts vs 2 shafts for the big block wedge. Might be a consideration when building big power.
I think if you want old school big block power and torque, Normally Aspirated, simple wiring, and using stock k-frame / mounts then do the big block.
If you want more of the modern pro tour type car with all the computerized EFI & ignition, and want to later use forced induction, then the Gen 3 Hemi would be my choice. Maybe with an aftermarket K-frame
The 212 head looks good too, with a bit better low lift flow @ 0.400" and below. 0.500" is almost the same. Just thinking of swaps with stock cam.
The heads are a bit pricy $2,041 each, but come fully assembled with good parts.
Ported Big Block Mopar heads that flow 390 @ 0.700" are going to cost about the same. Thinking of what my Hughes CNC ported Victor MW heads cost, plus springs, retainers and such.
Just thinking that with heads that flow and cost about the same, likely not a big difference in peak power so looking at other considerations.
The early 5.7 heads are nothing special, the later Apache heads are really good. CNC ported flow around what the Trick Flow big block heads flow.
The larger CID of the big block would have more low end torque and wouldn't have to rev as high as the smaller Gen 3 engine.
Aftermarket roller rocker arms for the Gen 3 hemi can get expensive, 4 shafts vs 2 shafts for the big block wedge. Might be a consideration when building big power.
I think if you want old school big block power and torque, Normally Aspirated, simple wiring, and using stock k-frame / mounts then do the big block.
If you want more of the modern pro tour type car with all the computerized EFI & ignition, and want to later use forced induction, then the Gen 3 Hemi would be my choice. Maybe with an aftermarket K-frame
451Mopar
Well-Known Member
I did notice that new 6.2 Hell Cat engine blocks can be bought for about $2,000.
There are also some other aftermarket gen 3 blocks, but they are as expensive as aftermarket Mopar Big Blocks, so maybe at 1,000 HP, the Hell cat block might be better cost wise if they hold the power.
I don't think a 50 year old stock 440 casting designed for 350 HP will handle 1,000 HP without a lot of help. For me 1,000+ HP big block power I would use a stronger aftermarket block so it lives a longer life.
There are also some other aftermarket gen 3 blocks, but they are as expensive as aftermarket Mopar Big Blocks, so maybe at 1,000 HP, the Hell cat block might be better cost wise if they hold the power.
I don't think a 50 year old stock 440 casting designed for 350 HP will handle 1,000 HP without a lot of help. For me 1,000+ HP big block power I would use a stronger aftermarket block so it lives a longer life.
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If you REALLY, REALLY, want 1000 hp, and be streetable (have you ever driven anything remotely that powerful?) plan on the best block you can find for a gen 3, best heads you can afford, and a couple turbos.... or at least one BIG one.
You can drive it around on little or no boost, then crank it up when you need to.
To do a big block mopar near 1000 hp, you would start with a $9000 aluminum block, add another $15-20,000, and go from there....
You can drive it around on little or no boost, then crank it up when you need to.
To do a big block mopar near 1000 hp, you would start with a $9000 aluminum block, add another $15-20,000, and go from there....
451Mopar
Well-Known Member
What do you think about the 707 Hell cat crate engine? Seeing these for around $15,000 with all the accessories, but needing the computer and wiring harness.
There are higher HP crate engines, but the prices seem to jump quite a bit higher.
Just thinking of what usually happens, is always trying to get more power often leads to constant upgrades until something breaks, then start over again with all better parts.
There are higher HP crate engines, but the prices seem to jump quite a bit higher.
Just thinking of what usually happens, is always trying to get more power often leads to constant upgrades until something breaks, then start over again with all better parts.
Curiousyellow71
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An aftermarket wedge block and a gen 2 hemi block are the same cost..why not do a gen 2 hemi? Pretty much a bolt in into any b body.
If the rpms are kept down a boosted engine will live longer then a na engine that has to turn lots of rpms.
If the rpms are kept down a boosted engine will live longer then a na engine that has to turn lots of rpms.
Runcharger
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Theres the answer. Gen 2 Hemi and inject it. That will look the best and make the power. The Gen 3 "hemis" are capable, just ugly is all.
RemCharger
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Heavy, underpowered, but neat.
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IMO......how about a good old 225 cu.in. slant 6 (Valiant or Dart) or even more rare 198 or a 170) with a 3 speed column shift 2 door post sedan.....reliable.....inexpensive to operate, parts easy to find ...unique.....everyone wants a mega hp 8 second street machines that gets 20 mpg (why?).....just to impress their "buddies"???? .......ill take the old / 6 sedan......
BOB RENTON
BOB RENTON
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Heavy, expensive, and too small. Wait, check that. Way too heavy, WAY too expensive, and too small.
Makes a great motor for a 32 -34 Ford, or a gasser. That's about all I'd use it in, (except for maybe my old Imperial)
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