New mechanical fuel pump not working

[Wietse]

Well, just tried the old pump and it's the same shite.
I checked the push rod in the engine as i could not remove the plug as the hex is damaged.
I noticed the push rod will not fall that far down that it actually touches the plug, it's not coming out all the way, so even with the plug out it would not just drop out.
The stroke it has is free and smooth, i can rotate it also with ease.

Strange that this happened by just pulling the pump, i am kinda lost now what this could be.

 

[lewtot184]

I crack in a hose connection or just bad hose on the suction side of the pump will cause any mech pump not to work. check hose connections at the tank.

 

[moparnation74]

Well, just tried the old pump and it's the same shite.
I checked the push rod in the engine as i could not remove the plug as the hex is damaged.
I noticed the push rod will not fall that far down that it actually touches the plug, it's not coming out all the way, so even with the plug out it would not just drop out.
The stroke it has is free and smooth, i can rotate it also with ease.

Strange that this happened by just pulling the pump, i am kinda lost now what this could be.

...remove the plug and it will fall out or stick you finger in there and back it out....

The plug being stripped is a problem. I am not sure if you can get a drill in there to drill it and get an extractor to remove it.

 

[oldbee]

Ur pump rod won't come out without removing that plug and there's nothing else in there except the rod.

 

[Wietse]

I tried to kinda pull it but it would not move anymore towards the plug.
The minimum gap between the push rod and plug would be 1/2" max, probably a bit less than that but i will not drop that far that it will hit the plug.

Look at the picture, it will not drop any further then this.

 

[Pops1967GTX]

Probably mushroom over from wear. Get a vise grip on it . You need to inspect length...

 

[miller]

I noticed the push rod will not fall that far down that it actually touches the plug, it's not coming out all the way, so even with the plug out it would not just drop out.

If the push rod won't drop down to the plug, with the pump out, one of two things. Either carbon/crud built up on the end inside the motor, or the end is flared. If the second...cam has to come out, to get the rod out.
Suppose you are putting the pump lever 'under' the rod. Need to get the plug out, one way, or the other.

 

[Fran Blacker]

I had a stripped hex on my block. Took it to a machine shop. I had other work for them but I let them remove plug. When I got it back with plug removed ask how they did it? They took a torx bit slightly larger than the size of the hex and drove it into the hex. Out it came.

 

[Wietse]

This plug is rock solid, that will not come out.
If the engine is out of the car it will be a half hour job and i will have it out, but with the pump and alternator removed there is no space to get an angle on it.
I had every tool in the shed on it that could get a grip on it but it's not going to happen.

Guess this leaves me with just 1 option and go get an electric fuel pump with filter and regulator assembly and install that.
Guess my time with mechanical fuel pumps is over.
I will not strip the block now, i have planned to remove it this winter and then i can replace the plug, remove the push rod etc.
To me a mechanical fuel pump is not worth a new camshaft which most likely will be damaged as well.

Anyone a good suggestion for a electric fuel pump? Like a full kit with regulator and all?

Edit: Guess the new pump and it's stiffness just worn out the last bit of push rod or cam lobe.

 

[Garys1969RR]

There is nothing in there that can fall into the oil pan, other than the 2 bolts that holds the pump on. And those are, of course, on the outside of the motor. I would check to make sure the pushrod is moving when you turn the engine over by hand. Also remove the push rod and check the length.

 

[747mopar]

Can you get to the plug with a MIG? If so I'd find a half nut close to the outside diameter of the plug (inside dia of nut close to outside dia of plug) and fill the nut with weld..... works everytime as long as your weld is good. The heat along with a much larger hex works wonderfully but with the oil and gas I'd wash it good, use fiberglass insulation to isolate the spatter, have a buddy ready with a hose and have a fire extinguisher ready.

Sure you can just skip to electric but I'd want to know why... That's just me though. As for electric pumps it's really a matter of what you want to spend but you could buy a Summit or Holley that doesn't require a regulator for just over $100 (cheap option). If you want to take advantage of the swap and eliminate vapor locking issues you would want one that requires a regulator used with a regulator that returns to tank. The last option keeps the fuel in constant flow eliminating the possibilities of it heating up near exhaust pipes and headers.

 

[Pops1967GTX]

From the photo you have enough threads showing to use a punch to turn it...

 

[Wietse]

Well, my plan was to pull the engine this winter and check it's internal condition and take it from there.
As the engine has been rebuild before and has been well modified and puts out quite some healthy horse power i am not sure if it is going to need much.
If i find the fuel pump cam lobe damaged/worn at that time i can decide to stay electric or replace the cam and go back to mechanical.
I want it to keep driving for this season till the weather turns bad, so maybe an electric fuel pump with low pressure and no need of a regulator would sit me out till winter time.
I am guessing the original style fuel filter with vapor lock return line will do to keep things circulating and avoid heat build up in the lines.
Going for a heavy pump and regulator requires a similar size return line (5/16" or 3/8") which i don't have as the original return on the fuel tank pick up is only 1/4" which means even more modifications.

I really don't want to strip half of the engine and start with all this now.
What would be a required free flow rate for a 440 with around 400-450 hp, my eyes fell on the Mallory Model 110 pump but comes with a price.
More likely to stick to electric pump if i buy that one.

 

[furyus]

If you remove the distributor, you can see the lobe on the cam for the fuel pump rod. Can also see the upper part of the pushrod, so you can get an idea what happened. Just mark the distributor at the block, and mark the rotor at the distributor. That way, you can put it right back where it was. Don't rotate the engine with the distributor out.

 

[Wietse]

Thx, that's my best bet to see what the damage is, if any.
If i do find a damaged cam lobe or push rod i will go ahead and convert to electric fuel pump, maybe temporary, maybe permanent.

 

[furyus]

The fuel pump cam went on my car, so I went with a Carter high volume electric pump. I already had 1/2 inch fuel lines, and regulator. Added the pump as close to the tank , andas low as possible. They are pushers, not pullers. I used a relay, inertia switch, and an oil pressure switch.

 

[Wietse]

I am still stuck with a 5/16" supply line and a 1/4"return so i will have to work with that.
Think that mallory model 110 will do, use the fuel filter vapor line for bleed off for circulation.
That should be ok for supplying this baby.

I have a relay for my ignition, guess i can add the fuel pump on this as well having a direct 12 volt from battery.
This relay is triggered by ignition line.

 

[Mike67]

Just put a safety in there..either an oil pressure switch or an inertia switch. I prefer the inertia my self but to each his own...

 

[oldbee]

1/4" vapor line should be fine. You've probably got a varnish buildup on the pump rod. I've had to rotate&you'll at the same time to get them out. If I remember correctly, I didn't even remove my pump rod when I went to elec.pump for racing; it would just fall down enuf from gravity& wouldn't even touch the cam lobe.

 

[moparedtn]

I'm seeing enough of that pipe plug (and that's what it is, a common pipe plug) sticking out of that block to get a small pipe wrench (Ridgid pipe wrench - accept no Chinese substitute) on the outside of.
(I'm a career fire sprinkler guy - pipe wrenches is what I do in part - well, used to when I was younger, anyways ).
Been there, done that on mine just this last early spring. Same deal, hex was corroded in the middle of the pipe plug.
It'll fight a little at first, but should back right out if you have a good bite on it.
Hard to do in the car, sure, but if you can get any little bit of swing in the pipe wrench, it should give.
Heck, even a good bite with vice grips will work if you're strong in the wrist.

It doesn't need to be super tight once reinstalled, either, since it's not under any more than crankcase air pressure anyways.

Interesting that you're feeding a higher HP engine with that 5/16" fuel line.
I wonder how much HP that line can actually supply under demand?
My GTX has the factory 3/8" line on it all the way back to the tank; replaced every bit of it when I re-did the fuel system.
I am using the reproduction M6903 "hemi" Carter fuel pump from Mancini, the rebuildable one just like stock:
http://www.manciniracing.com/cam6bisumefu.html
The engine absolutely ATE the Comp cams pushrod that was supposedly hardened just for this use. Running the Hughes one now, which is doing much better.

I have faith you can get that pipe plug out of there and retrieve the pushrod (it will also come out with some effort, working it up and down to knock off the oil/carbon buildup off it). You can also use the long needle nose type vice grips through the pump mounting hole in the block to grab the rod and work it out through the pipe plug hole.