Noisy rockers

[mkbubs]

Recently fired up my 440 for the first time, runs good and all. But my rocker arms are noisy as hell. Just have the stock style rockers, took the valve covers, I'm not bottoming out the valve springs, they just rattle when they aren't being pushed on by the push rods. Is this normal? Will it go away the more the engine runs? Also seem to be getting some blow by coming out of the breather caps. Again, will this stop the more I run the motor? Thanks for the help.

 

[Garys1969RR]

Need more info please, did you just install a new cam? Rebuild the motor? Has it sat for a long time? How is your oil pressure? The more you can tell us about the motor, the better chance of helping you. A rebuilt 440 should be fairly quiet from the start. And modern piston rings should seat to the cyl wall pretty quickly after start up, if the cylinders are honed properly. Try doing a compression or leakdown test to see if the rings are sealing.

 

[MarPar]

I think the rockers have a gap to the retainers that needs to be set with a feeler gauge.

im sure i will be corrected if im wrong...just thinking out loud here...

 

[RT K_line]

If it is a solid cam it will have some play, but you said stock rockers which means hydraulic lifters and there shouldn't be any looseness. Something is definitely not right. Like Gary said more information is needed about the engine to help out more.

 

[Jcharger]

Not that this is necessarily your case, but I had a situation where some pushrods would spin or were loose (very slightly) because the stamped rockers were worn. I could rule out several other possibilities like a collapsed lifter, worn lobe, bent pushrod, incorrectly tightened down rocker arm shaft assembly. I replaced those rockers with new ones and the problem went away. I am sure you will be able to get a more accurate diagnosis after posting more information.

 

[Yatzee]

If the lifters are new then maybe the slack in the valve trane is a result of worn shafts and rockers. Were they new or original? An indispensable tool is a lifter rod length checking tool because your rods may actually be a few thousands on the short side. You should be able to just spin the rods with a bit of force using your fingers when each valve is completely closed, if not, and their too loose a bit more investment is required.

 

[mkbubs]

some history of the engine, when I bought the car the engine had been rebuilt six months before. That was back in 2001. In short, the engine sat for years, fast forward to 2011 and me and a buddy tore the engine apart and replaced all the seals, gaskets, and freeze plugs. put the engine back together and it sat for another year before I was able to put it back into the car. Unfortunately I don't know what kind of cam is in it, but I do know its not stock by the sound of the motor. The motor is as/is when I bought it besides the oil pump and the electronic ignition. By the look of the rockers they could be the original ones. oil pressure starts out around 70 psi then slowly goes down the longer the motor runs. before I turned it off last week it was running around 10 psi. the oil pressure does fluctuate when you hit the throttle. I haven't done a compression test yet, hoping to do one next weekend or so. And another thing, has anyone had an issue of aftermarket Hooker Headers rubbing the torsion bars? something else I noticed over the weekend:angryfire:

 

[khryslerkid]

Lack of oil to the valve train will cause noisy rockers. No oil pressure will cause the lifters to collapse. Are they quite when you have good oil pressure then they get noisy as the pressure drops?

 

[62 Dart Convertible]

KK is on the money, your low oil pressure is most likely the reason for the valve train noise.

Question is - what is the reason for low oil pressure?

What oil have you put in it?

If it ain't the oil, then your problem could be a worn or faulty oil pump, your crank/bearing clearances being too loose or one of a host of other problems.

The joys of inheriting somebody elses "rebuilt" motor....

 

[69a100]

Rocker shafts could be upside down too. Good Luck

 

[Daves69]

Rocker shafts could be upside down too. Good Luck

X2^^^ That's where I'd start if oil pressure is good.

 

[Garys1969RR]

10 PSI of oil pressure is way too low. That will definitely cause noisy lifters. Do you have new oil and filter in there? Something definitely not right in the oiling system. Even on a hot day, mine only drops to maybe 40 at idle.

- - - Updated - - -

Maybe a new oil pump? Try a melling hi volume pump. Mine has worked great!

 

[khryslerkid]

Hope you're not useing a Fram filter on there!

 

[69a100]

Hope you're not useing a Fram filter on there!

Me too, sometimes you get a bad filter and a simple swap fixes that, regardless of brand. Good Luck

 

[mkbubs]

Correction on the oil pressure, when it gets warmed up it runs pretty constantly around 18-20 psi. If I remember right, 20 is where I want to be at. The oil pump is a new milodon pump with a K&N oil filter. I do have an external oil system too. I have a new oil pick up screen, oil pump cover and oil pan. All from milodon, just haven't installed the parts yet. Something else I thought was interesting was if I press down on the rocker arm on the push rod side, I can push the rocker down. I can do this on four of them. Bad lifters? Thanks for the help guys, really appreciate the input.

 

[khryslerkid]

It's normal to push down on the pushrod side of the rocker and collapse the lifter. It bleeds the oil out of the lifter.

Are they the stamped, non adjustable rockers?

What's the history on the pushrods you used?

Did you check the location of the oil holes in the rocker shafts when installing?

 

[miller]

Just something to consider. You say 'stock' rocker arms...stamped steel for hydraulic lifters?

Typical deal is, when the lifter is on the cam base circle, or down all the way, there should be NO free play at the rocker arm/push rod. Look at the lifter...the push rod should have the lifter 'cap' (where the push rod end sets in the lifter) pushed slightly down. There is a wire clip, or snap ring, that keeps that cap in place. The lifter cap should be down at least .010" from the clip/ring, usually a little more. If not, push rods are wrong length. 010" is a minimum!
Lifter bad? Lifters/tappets are just small hydraulic pumps. They either work, or they don't. But, of course, they must have oil 'pressure' to work, and do their thing.

Shouldn't be any free play on the push rods, but should freely spin by hand, with a little resistance.
Just stuff to look at.

 

[62 Dart Convertible]

Correction on the oil pressure, when it gets warmed up it runs pretty constantly around 18-20 psi. If I remember right, 20 is where I want to be at. The oil pump is a new milodon pump with a K&N oil filter. I do have an external oil system too. I have a new oil pick up screen, oil pump cover and oil pan. All from milodon, just haven't installed the parts yet. Something else I thought was interesting was if I press down on the rocker arm on the push rod side, I can push the rocker down. I can do this on four of them. Bad lifters? Thanks for the help guys, really appreciate the input.

20psi is pretty low oil pressure. I'd expect to see more than that on a warm engine even at idle. When engine/oil is hot, what is the oil pressure at 2000 rpm?

I was just reading a post the other day where somebody fitted a Milodon external oil system and had shite oil pressure during priming. Turned out he didn't plug a passage (redundant pickup hole, I think) as a plug is not supplied in the kit and the instructions didn't point it out either...

 

[miller]

Always a chance of some bad lifters. While running, the lifters rotate in the bores, pulling in oil...that oil, and it's pressure is what 'pumps up' the lifter pistons (or cap). Sure, they should be able to bleed down, but slowly.

 

[mkbubs]

Bad lifters is what I was thinking too now. What are some good lifters for the 440? I see the 440 source sells the comp cams lifters. How are those?