Oil for my Mopar

[BBody360]

Alright guys, just got the engine back in the car. I filled it with 10w40 from wally world. I drove for about 30 minutes, was smooth with great oil pressure when it was cold. As it warmed up (generally cruise highway at 170-180) I noticed a small tick (like the lifters) and what sounded like two rocks hitting eachother, but not quite the sound of a knock? (I have a crappy exhaust right, very restrictive, might be the sound of the knock. New mufflers come Sunday.) Oil pressure warm cold was 40, warm was under 10 idling. Cruising cold was 60, cruising warm was 20-30. Do I need a thicker oil?

Timing is right, carb is right, I just tore the engine down and didn't notice any problems with the car. It could be an exhaust leak but shouldn't it be there cold and go away as it heats up?

I drained the oil, checked the filter nothing shiny so it's all good.

Going to fill it up again, and I had a friend of mine say to run some zinc additive? Weather is about to get cold again so what do you guys recommend for an oil? I don't want synthetic, just because of the price. But if it works better, well I guess i'll use it.

10w30
10w40
20w50

Brand?

Zinc additive? Same as break in oil? I have flat tappet.

Thanks in advanced.

 

[747mopar]

Never run a flat tapper cam without either adding a zinc attitive or an oil with it already in it. I use Lucas, they offer an additive that treats an oil change but I just buy the 5qt jug of their 10W 40 (I believe it's called Hot Rod oil??). I think some diesel oils like Rotella still have the zinc too.

 

[BBody360]

SO some lucas zinc additive and any type of 10w40 oil? I'm not sure i read that right, but lucas has their own oil? What brand do you recommend?

 

[69Bee]

I recommend Joe Gibbs HR1 (15W50), with Zinc/Magnesium/Phosphorus already added. Suck it up buttercup, and pay the price of the oil because it is less expensive than replacing a flat cam. Summit sells it for $8.99/qt and is well worth every penny.

If I build an engine for a customer, it gets BR or BR30 break-In oil, no exception. If they don't want to, they can get their motor done somewhere else. I also highly recommend the them to use the HR1 or HR2 after break-In is complete. The oils of today are merely "colored water" as far as oil goes for flat tappet cams (thanks EPA).

 

[747mopar]

SO some lucas zinc additive and any type of 10w40 oil? I'm not sure i read that right, but lucas has their own oil? What brand do you recommend?

Yes, if you use their additive then just fill it up with regular oil. I like using the oil I pictured because if you have to top it off you don't have to worry about thinning out the additive.

 

[Seventy]

Comp cams 1590 oil in a rebuilt ft cammed engine... Comp also sells 12 oz bottles of additive, called something like break in oil additive, its like $12 a bottle and the 1590 is $6 a bottle. On a new engine I put half of a bottle of the additive and fill it with 1590, no issues as of yet. Some of the other oils are just too expensive, this way you only spend $40 with a fram filter.... I change the oil after 500 miles or so and then after that I use comp cams 1594 blend, with a bit of the comp cams additive if I have it around, but I have a ton of bottles of zddp, I pick them up at shows and I even scored a case of zddp Eastwood brand at a yard sale $2 a bottle, it was 1 case plus 2 bottles, I wish that guy had more...

 

[Yatzee]

Seventy, that wasn't zddp, it was my urine test for a kidney infection. How did it work?

 

[BBody360]

Comp cams 1590 oil in a rebuilt ft cammed engine... Comp also sells 12 oz bottles of additive, called something like break in oil additive, its like $12 a bottle and the 1590 is $6 a bottle. On a new engine I put half of a bottle of the additive and fill it with 1590, no issues as of yet. Some of the other oils are just too expensive, this way you only spend $40 with a fram filter.... I change the oil after 500 miles or so and then after that I use comp cams 1594 blend, with a bit of the comp cams additive if I have it around, but I have a ton of bottles of zddp, I pick them up at shows and I even scored a case of zddp Eastwood brand at a yard sale $2 a bottle, it was 1 case plus 2 bottles, I wish that guy had more...

I have a bottle of the break in Lucas oil additive. I don't have access to these other brands of oil like Hot Rod Etc. I can get the other known brands at like the local wally world. Only reason being is I need to drive the car to class on Monday, and I cannot wait longer than the weekend to special order other oils.

I've read valvoline, Castro, etc. are paying for the name. If you had to choose, which would you buy.

I'm not trying to be cheap, I've rebuilt motors before and I understand what it all entails $$$ wise. I'll be tearing this motor down and sending it to a machine shop within 6 months to get it ready to go into a Dakota, while I build a 440 for the charger.

Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Seventy]

I would go to napa and just get a zddp additive, if you dont need an oil change just add it and be done with it, why even change it??? You may have to drain a few ounces out but that is easy enough...

Another option is buyit from amazon, with next day saturaday shipping it probably $15 shipped, Ill bet you spend $5 in gas going to pick up the oil locally, lol...
http://www.amazon.com/Competition-C...&qid=1443201635&sr=8-6&keywords=zddp+additive
they have about every brand, not sure if you are a prime member, but its free 2 day and you pay a bit extra for next day, I needed a shirt for a wedding, the wedding was on a saturday, I noticed my shirts happened to be a little too tight Friday (it was right after thanksgiving, lol), I went on amazon $29 for the shirt $6 for next day, it was on the door step when I woke up... I think they used a drone, lol..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98BIu9dpwHU

 

[BBody360]

Haha, I'm familiar with amazon. I have Dynomax mufflers coming in on SUNDAY $103 for 2 shipped. Prime is crazy.

So you're saying the zddp additive and any type of oil? 10w40 recommend? I was looking at Vr-1 oil. Already has zinc additive?

Pantry option now makes me even lazier.

- - - Updated - - -

No oil in the engine now, drained it cause I heard a noise! But all looks good, so I'm just going to put new oil + additive.

 

[67Satty]

I think something else is going on besides whether or not you add zinc additive or what weight oil you are using. I think something else is causing your oil pressure to be too low and I think that should be sorted out first.

Rule of thumb being that oil pressure should be 10 psi per 1,000 rpm, your pressure right now is just barely adequate and lower than I'd expect. For example, my oil pressure is 40-45 psi cold at idle and 80-85 psi cruising cold, and when hot doesn't go below 35 psi at idle and 70 psi cruising. This with 10W-30 oil. Mine seems a little high and I've even thought about running a 5W-20.

 

[uwss]

Use the BR break in oil; I use it 2 times then the HR. Can't beat good oil. Don't be cheap.

 

[Seventy]

OK, so your 440 (which motor is this?) is sitting with the drain plug out? That is a recipe for disaster, you are going to have to reprime it..

Here is what I would do. Pull the valve covers and check for anything that could cause valve train noise, pull the distributor and drill prime the engine after filling it with 10-30 (10-30 10-40 15-40 you wont get a noise from any)... Turn the engine by hand while drilling the drive and watch the oil pressure...

After that is all done, recheck the oil, reassemble, and start it up, if you have a noise after a 15 count shut it down, something is wrong, try to triangulate the ticking/knocking while its running, a stethoscope rod is a nice tool for this, you want to see if its bottom end, wrist pin, cam, timing chain, valve train, etc...

Could be something silly too, I had a customer that installed his own motor (I built for him 383 stroker), then brought it to me on a tow truck because it was knocking after a week. I called him 3 hours later and told him to come and pick it up with a check for $375, it was a flex plate knock...

Noises are weird when you are in the car driving, if there was no metla in the oil and you watched it flow out, plus drove it home with the noise, you can be pretty sure its not the bottom, becaus bearings make a mess when they are noisy... BUT with these mopars you want to prime them well (old pontiacs too, that motor with the external oil pump, them are great for blowing up after oil changes...)....

 

[Dennis H]

10-40 is my weight of choice and recommended by my builder. I run Amsoil Signature Synthetic 10-40. It has a high-zinc content. I second the stethoscope.

 

[BBody360]

OK, so your 440 (which motor is this?) is sitting with the drain plug out? That is a recipe for disaster, you are going to have to reprime it..

Here is what I would do. Pull the valve covers and check for anything that could cause valve train noise, pull the distributor and drill prime the engine after filling it with 10-30 (10-30 10-40 15-40 you wont get a noise from any)... Turn the engine by hand while drilling the drive and watch the oil pressure...

After that is all done, recheck the oil, reassemble, and start it up, if you have a noise after a 15 count shut it down, something is wrong, try to triangulate the ticking/knocking while its running, a stethoscope rod is a nice tool for this, you want to see if its bottom end, wrist pin, cam, timing chain, valve train, etc...

Could be something silly too, I had a customer that installed his own motor (I built for him 383 stroker), then brought it to me on a tow truck because it was knocking after a week. I called him 3 hours later and told him to come and pick it up with a check for $375, it was a flex plate knock...

Noises are weird when you are in the car driving, if there was no metla in the oil and you watched it flow out, plus drove it home with the noise, you can be pretty sure its not the bottom, becaus bearings make a mess when they are noisy... BUT with these mopars you want to prime them well (old pontiacs too, that motor with the external oil pump, them are great for blowing up after oil changes...)....

We're talking about the 360 right now. I primed the pump (after running it 20 minutes and getting good pressure). Then i remembered i need to prime it. So i primed it, but never turned the crank just used a drill and spun it. Got pressure while I was doing that too. I had a flex plate bolt come loose (didn't have lock tight...). I'm going over the engine when I get home tonight. I have oil on the tranny, even after I replaced the gaskets well? I'll see if I can find the leak.

As for prime, like I said I drove the car with oil pressure, then primed the pump AFTER I drove it. (brain farted) I guess I was too excited. Drove it again same oil pressure, didn't hear the rockers ticking or the slight knocking noise until it heated up. Drove home drained the fluid, pulled the filter. all good. This is when I noticed the loose flex plate bolt. The 360 is sitting in the car at home with only the left over oil sitting in the pan, with plug in.


Ordered the Zddp like you suggested. still trying to figure out what brand of oil.. do I use synthetic too?

 

[Seventy]

Oil is not as detrimental as you would think, just a decent 10-30 or 40 if you prefer (for my climate I just like 30).

Hopefully you didnt hurt anything, I always spin the motor to get the oil to both heads, I would pull the vc's and see if anything looks or feels off?

At this point though, oil from napa or autozone with the zddp and you will be fine, I wouldnt spend $15 a qt but get what you are comfortable with, a synthetic blend like castrols (synblend I think they call it I know the full synth is called magnetec) or anything like that... I change the oil in my cars VERY often, much more often then 3000 miles in most cases because before I park them for the winter I put new oil in them (carb'd cars have much more fuel in their oil after a couple thousand miles, why have your engine soaking in that and all the combustion by products all winter... But because I change it often, and dont use them much, I dont want to spend $12 a qt for all the cars, so $4-6 is much better, and IMO I think changing the oil twice as much is better than running oil that is twice as expensive. i have a lift and it takes me 15 minutes to do it...

ANYWAY, get the additive, get any 10-40 oil you want, prime it (correctly while spinning it, watch the psi and be sure you have oil), I would have the stethoscope (I think harbor freight sells them, I know I got mine at nappa for $9 years ago) on my ears and have someone else start it incase the noise is there right away, if it is not, let it idle until it comes, keeping an eye on the oil psi and temps, when the noise comes back, figure out where it is coming from...

I see the flywheel noise often, did you tighten that after the noise or before? If it is not an accessory (alt, ac pump, ps pump, h20 pump, fan, etc), not the flex plate or damper, then I am going to say its probably a lifter or push rod, push rod would have less to do with oil and more with the valve train and lifter would be associated with an oil issue, but MOST likely less to do with the oil you chose and more to do with NOT priming it and running it for 20 minutes, and then not priming it correctly...

good luck, let us know..

 

[lewtot184]

your oil pressure is so low it makes me think that one of the galley plugs is missing; like the one in front of the intermediate shaft.

 

[mopar 3 B]

your oil pressure is so low it makes me think that one of the galley plugs is missing; like the one in front of the intermediate shaft.

X2.
What did you do to varify the Fram filter was OK? Crap for oil and filter just asking for problems!

 

[BBody360]

X2.
What did you do to varify the Fram filter was OK? Crap for oil and filter just asking for problems!

How do I go about checking for the shaft?

I didn't use a Fram filter. I used the Mopar brand One.

When i drained the fluid it felt very thin, per se. Nothing shinny rolling through it. Saw a leak coming from the arm where the filter attaches. Is there a way to tighten that bolt without pulling the engine or taking off the headers?

Thanks

 

[SlinktRR]

Under 10?? Something wrong. I run 5w30 and my 383 is 78 at startup, 60 at temp cruising and 45 in gear at 600 rpm. Thicker oil may help a bit but there is likely some issue inside your motor. The 15w40 diesel oils may give you a boost.