Pick your restorer carefully, or are show cars not meant to be operated?

[BeatersRus]

Really?


http://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopar...e-for-my-father-my-69-gtx-restoration.127388/

Wow!
Thank You for posting that.
not only do i love the stories that go with our cars,but,i actually Know,or knew the guy he got that car from!!
lol
we used to call him billy West,and there was a ton of local mopar guys from All over the state there all the time.
this was one of the hotspots bitd,was his shop and road out front.
they would be running drag cars,ss,everything up n down the road with the Thundering of open exhausts
and its literally just outside main street off town.
Great memories there,Ty again.

 

[moparnation74]

Wow!
Thank You for posting that.
not only do i love the stories that go with our cars,but,i actually Know,or knew the guy he got that car from!!
lol
we used to call him billy West,and there was a ton of local mopar guys from All over the state there all the time.
this was one of the hotspots bitd,was his shop and road out front.
they would be running drag cars,ss,everything up n down the road with the Thundering of open exhausts
and its literally just outside main street off town.
Great memories there,Ty again.

Billy was a wonderful gentleman and a great friend. Interesting you knew Billy and a small world indeed.....We all used to hang out at Carlisle every year when we went...He always stayed abreast on the the parts....Most everyone made it into his main shop area but the "other" enclosed areas were open to a select few....The road by his house was a narrow country road, I wounder how many hit the ditch....

Since it appears you knew him well. Do you know what led to him to quit racing?

 

[moparnation74]

You know I enjoy all types of restorations and I do not discriminate....I have a particular type I love and enjoy to do....More and more I see people pressing labels like "trailer queens" "deep pockets" "Museum pieces" etc.....Whats the big deal...it is not your car, not your money and really no right to bag on people in this manner...

We are all car guys that love a particular brand.....Some build rat rods with 440's/426's, survivors, resto mods, OE correct and beaters....I THINK THEY ARE ALL COOL....Makes for great conversations with the owners...

 

[BeatersRus]

Billy was a wonderful gentleman and a great friend. Interesting you knew Billy and a small world indeed.....We all used to hang out at Carlisle every year when we went...He always stayed abreast on the the parts....Most everyone made it into his main shop area but the "other" enclosed areas were open to a select few....The road by his house was a narrow country road, I wounder how many hit the ditch....

Since it appears you knew him well. Do you know what led to him to quit racing?

i moved before that,im not sure but
he told me once she was worried about him,if you knew him he had a bit of lung problem.
he tended to shake a lot too.
he Was a Character,just like a lot of us are.
and yes btw newbies didnt get to see the hemis and racecars in the back barn? shed? lol shop
and hey wasnt that the Narrowest shop in the world back then,lol,you could barely walk thru any part of it.
billy knew where everything was,knew what it came off of,he was amazing.
if you made it there in the 80-s,early 90-s,you woulda seen a Field of mopars he had out back.
what was also amazing,was to be driving thru selma and seeing the cops pulling over people meanwhile All you can hear is the Roar of cars motors,all during weekday hours.

now im sitting here trying to recall the other guys names,that he used to hang with down there.
gotta say,north carolina was the best time in my life for cars,loved the people and the times.

Edit: wanted to add,this is Mad Cool that you got that car from Billy.
small world indeed.

 

[moparnation74]

i moved before that,im not sure but
he told me once she was worried about him,if you knew him he had a bit of lung problem.
he tended to shake a lot too.
he Was a Character,just like a lot of us are.
and yes btw newbies didnt get to see the hemis and racecars in the back barn? shed? lol shop
and hey wasnt that the Narrowest shop in the world back then,lol,you could barely walk thru any part of it.
billy knew where everything was,knew what it came off of,he was amazing.
if you made it there in the 80-s,early 90-s,you woulda seen a Field of mopars he had out back.
what was also amazing,was to be driving thru selma and seeing the cops pulling over people meanwhile All you can hear is the Roar of cars motors,all during weekday hours.

now im sitting here trying to recall the other guys names,that he used to hang with down there.
gotta say,north carolina was the best time in my life for cars,loved the people and the times.

Edit: wanted to add,this is Mad Cool that you got that car from Billy.
small world indeed.

You could walk through the shop...or climb sometimes, lol....

The "narrow" I mentioned earlier was the country road in front of the house...Two B bodies side by side has two left and the other car has two right wheels in the grass....SCARY!

 

[67 coronet]

to me, well built is well built.i dont care if its a low rider, rat rod, resto mod, or full factory spec resto.just do it right and i will like it.

 

[TxDon]

The truth is our cars were seriously **** boxes when they left the factory, and thousands of Mopar techs at dealerships had to rush and get creative to get the cars acceptable by their new owners. So this idea that there is a "standard" of any kind for our cars is pretty laughable to me. The truth is what is "right" on our cars is usually whatever a dealer tech had to do to get a customer to sign off on the purchase order, and the best a fanatical owner can do is make their car just like one or two other cars because that's about as standard as things get.

I never owned a new Mopar from the muscle era but I saw and drooled over a lot of them. I remember going to Mr. Norm's in Chicago around 1970 to buy parts and seeing new Hemi and six pack cars sitting all over the place. They had the worst paint jobs I had ever seen on new cars, some looked like they had been painted with a roller. Guys I knew then that owned serious Mopar cars all said that the mechanical and engineering stuff was bulletproof but everything else was bargain basement. They were built to be fast, disposable cars that you raced for a couple years and traded up when the rust started to show.

 

[moparnation74]

I never owned a new Mopar from the muscle era but I saw and drooled over a lot of them. I remember going to Mr. Norm's in Chicago around 1970 to buy parts and seeing new Hemi and six pack cars sitting all over the place. They had the worst paint jobs I had ever seen on new cars, some looked like they had been painted with a roller. Guys I knew then that owned serious Mopar cars all said that the mechanical and engineering stuff was bulletproof but everything else was bargain basement. They were built to be fast, disposable cars that you raced for a couple years and traded up when the rust started to show.

The OE people are fully aware of this....So what overall point are your trying to get across?

 

[Speedbird]

I actually have a car that treated with Ziebart back then.
Still "rust free".
(OK, I've had it some years and helped with that).
Because rust......

 

[flypaper]

The OE people are fully aware of this....So what overall point are your trying to get across?

those who are not capable in some way,
make themselves feel better by tearing others or what they are doing down...

 

[Bruzilla]

Both have their merit, the restored are nice to look at, I'm not one to point out "thats the wrong year bolt..."

That's one of the reasons I never got into the whole Day 1 resto thing. Yes, there are engineering plans, parts lists, and design drawings, but cars aren't built with those. They are built by folks who suffer consequences if they don't get "X" number of cars down an assembly line in eight hours, so while they should get this or that part, they actually got whatever part was available at the time. I've seen lots of fights break out at car shows in the 90s because someone would say something on their car was original and some nomenclature guy would say it wasn't. Truth was they were both right.

 

[Speedbird]

Well, I guess Pebble Beach is out of the question.

you would be surprised how many cars I've looked at over the years that had inoperable wipers /washers , blinkers /lights /horn / speedo /gauges . it got to the point where that was the first thing I asked , it was as if you guys over there never use any of the above when out driving / cruising

Goggle "jay Leno wind clock pebble beach"

 

[moparnation74]

That's one of the reasons I never got into the whole Day 1 resto thing. Yes, there are engineering plans, parts lists, and design drawings, but cars aren't built with those. They are built by folks who suffer consequences if they don't get "X" number of cars down an assembly line in eight hours, so while they should get this or that part, they actually got whatever part was available at the time. I've seen lots of fights break out at car shows in the 90s because someone would say something on their car was original and some nomenclature guy would say it wasn't. Truth was they were both right.

Even if someone got hamtramck running again and got workers blitzed and ran a car through the assembly process with nos parts....people would still bitch about something.....

Maybe day 1 like stuff hence like is not for you...that's cool it is different strokes for different folks but why the need to revert back to "it's not day one" or "lazy line workers". Again all are known and not like the first time you have stated this, lol. Copy and paste, eh....

OE guys build cars as close to OE like as one can get....some better than others....

Is it exactly the same as "day one"...no it will.never be...it is original once.....So again what's the point?

 

[Mike67]

Day 1 , day 2...I had never heard thst term until this site....still unsure ehat it reallt means?
Ive always used the terminology or clasifications car shows use in general ... original, custom, restomod, prostreet & race...but that's also subjective depending on the organization.
Hell one show we entered the 55 in wasnt classed as prostreet even though it is tubbed w/21.50s because it did not have a cage. It was registered as a custom...we lost to a restored tractor which my F.I.L. was pissed about....told him ya but that was a really nice tractor!!!

 

[Bruzilla]

Even if someone got hamtramck running ago and got workers blitzed and ran a car through the assembly process with nos parts....people would still bitch about something.....

Maybe day 1 like stuff hence like is not for you...that's cool it is different strokes for different folks but why the need to revert back to "it's not day one" or "lazy line workers". Again all are known and not like the first time you have stated this, lol. Copy and paste, eh....

OE guys build cars as close to OE like as one can get....some better than others....

Is it exactly the same as "day one"...no it will.never be...it is original once.....So again what's the point?

Spend much time at Mopar car shows? My point is when I go to Mopar-only shows, this nonsense is ALWAYS creating freaking drama. Always. I go to mixed shows, Ford shows, Chevy shows, they don't have this nonsense. I've always attributed this to the fact there's a gazillion of their cars made and still on the market, so they don't nitpick the crap out of each other. They distinguish cars by model/year/power train. That's it. There were so few of our cars made, and so few still on the road, that it seems to be all important for some people to rant about how theirs is somehow different/better/more exclusive than the next guy's.

I go to Mopar shows and there's guys arguing over production numbers for a 196X Roadrunner with a 440, 4-Spd, Tor Red, with an AM/FM radio, and an inspection mark by Bob on the rear end. They argue over a damaged fender replacement that was put on by a dealer before delivery counts as "factory" or not. They argue over how an alternator replaced 20 years ago makes a car a non-survivor.

I get seeing this minutiae as being important at high-end concourse events, but this BS goes on at everyday Mopar events! Yeah, different strokes for different folks, but it bothers the crap out of me that I can go to a Mustang show or a Chevy event and everyone's talking about how cool or creative someone has made their car, and they're not on the verge of fisticuffs over something stupid like a bolt or a nut, which is something I saw actually cause a full-out beat down at one show. And what annoys me most is they are fighting over crap that often has no basis in reality. As has been mentioned already, Chrysler paint work was horrible in the 60s and 70s, yet here are these guys with perfect $10,000+ paint jobs bragging about how Day 1 restored their cars are, which is pretty laughable in my opinion.

 

[Speedbird]

There is anger at Pebble Beach from the car owner's according to the judges.
It's just on a different level.
I have an Australian friend that just got back from the six cylinder Mustang show in Nashville.
New to all this drama stuff.
I'm still trying to get a good read on what the PMS factor was there from him..
Sounds like that is mostly reserved for the high end Mustang shows.
I'm just guessing.
People get so touchy.

 

[Darter6]

Above there was a mention of magazine cars.Several years ago Mopar Muscle gave away a yellow 69 Super Bee. This car was sponsored by a chewing tobacco company and was won by a man in West Virginia.The man had no interest in the car(total non car guy) except for the fact that a appraisal was given with the car with a price of $30K. They shipped him the car.Well it didn't hardly run,the pulleys were so misaligned that the belts were burning off. Also lights didn't work,wiring was a mess,none of the gauges worked and the new interior that was installed looked like a monkey did the work.Along with steering and suspension problems.Now this was supposed to be a "Restored" car. We got a call that the owner(remind you he WON the car) was not happy as he was trying to sell the car for the appraisal price of $30K. The tobacco company agreed to pay for all the repairs and the car was shipped to my friends body shop in PA. After looking the car over we offered the owner $18K for the car."No way, I want the $30K that I was told the car is worth." Hell even after the car was repaired it wasn't even worth the $18K my friend was offering. The tobacco company paid the $10K+ bill. The car was shipped back to West Virginia and never heard from again. I suppose it is sitting in the guys back yard sinking in the mud and covered with leaves.Rant over,,What were we talking about ??

 

[moparnation74]

Spend much time at Mopar car shows? My point is when I go to Mopar-only shows, this nonsense is ALWAYS creating freaking drama. Always. I go to mixed shows, Ford shows, Chevy shows, they don't have this nonsense. I've always attributed this to the fact there's a gazillion of their cars made and still on the market, so they don't nitpick the crap out of each other. They distinguish cars by model/year/power train. That's it. There were so few of our cars made, and so few still on the road, that it seems to be all important for some people to rant about how theirs is somehow different/better/more exclusive than the next guy's.

I go to Mopar shows and there's guys arguing over production numbers for a 196X Roadrunner with a 440, 4-Spd, Tor Red, with an AM/FM radio, and an inspection mark by Bob on the rear end. They argue over a damaged fender replacement that was put on by a dealer before delivery counts as "factory" or not. They argue over how an alternator replaced 20 years ago makes a car a non-survivor.

I get seeing this minutiae as being important at high-end concourse events, but this BS goes on at everyday Mopar events! Yeah, different strokes for different folks, but it bothers the crap out of me that I can go to a Mustang show or a Chevy event and everyone's talking about how cool or creative someone has made their car, and they're not on the verge of fisticuffs over something stupid like a bolt or a nut, which is something I saw actually cause a full-out beat down at one show. And what annoys me most is they are fighting over crap that often has no basis in reality. As has been mentioned already, Chrysler paint work was horrible in the 60s and 70s, yet here are these guys with perfect $10,000+ paint jobs bragging about how Day 1 restored their cars are, which is pretty laughable in my opinion.

I have been to carlisle for over 15 years and the Nats the same......Smaller Mopar shows and local shows....Point is?

I have ran into more wonderful people and also few "not so" wonderful people. You have to be man enough just to ignore that negativity...You act like your the only one whom has experienced this.....I have been dealing with types like you and your comments and the "correctness" crowd for over 25 years.....AS Frank noted above is boils down to people who cant do/afford to build these and people who can/afford them but doesnt have one or prefers another type of restoration but wants to get their arrogant point across....

10k paint job, lol...Really shows your level of knowledge.....You cannot get even a nice "True" professional well done sold color paint job with bodywork for that....Again, you stated pretty laughable in your opinion above....Do two wrongs make a right? They are day one "like" whats the big deal...It's not your money and I am beginning to wonder if your opinion solely revolves around the almighty dollar only? Just because you do not have the means to do this does not mean that another cannot try to achieve the dream for their car? So what if they want to say it is day one like.....If they want to know how well it was done then let the OE Gold judging place their car as to what level it is.
Apparently, you have never experience the Corvette guys then....you want to see a group that can get to blows quick....They are notorious to do the same.....

You painted your car with a steeler theme....I am a Steeler fan so I thinks that is pretty cool....Would I do that, No WAY but to each is own and I bet you get good conversations from that and some smart azzes too....How would you feel if a thread was created asking for opinions on people whom paint their cars based on their favorite team? It is no different of a feeling that is provoked in you than what you are doing making your comments about the OE guys building cars....

For the 1000 time we know they are not day one...they were day one once that is it.....They are built back sometimes to day one "like", similar but not exact.

When the shoe is on the other foot things change, just saying.....

After 25 years involved in the hobby and raised from birth on Mopars the true Moparians enjoy all levels of restorations and the owners/stories and if they do not like a car it is kept in that little Rolodex in their brain...Adding fuel to the fire adds nothing....

 

[Speedbird]

Above there was a mention of magazine cars.Several years ago Mopar Muscle gave away a yellow 69 Super Bee. This car was sponsored by a chewing tobacco company and was won by a man in West Virginia.The man had no interest in the car(total non car guy) except for the fact that a appraisal was given with the car with a price of $30K. They shipped him the car.Well it didn't hardly run,the pulleys were so misaligned that the belts were burning off. Also lights didn't work,wiring was a mess,none of the gauges worked and the new interior that was installed looked like a monkey did the work.Along with steering and suspension problems.Now this was supposed to be a "Restored" car. We got a call that the owner(remind you he WON the car) was not happy as he was trying to sell the car for the appraisal price of $30K. The tobacco company agreed to pay for all the repairs and the car was shipped to my friends body shop in PA. After looking the car over we offered the owner $18K for the car."No way, I want the $30K that I was told the car is worth." Hell even after the car was repaired it wasn't even worth the $18K my friend was offering. The tobacco company paid the $10K+ bill. The car was shipped back to West Virginia and never heard from again. I suppose it is sitting in the guys back yard sinking in the mud and covered with leaves.Rant over,,What were we talking about ??

Just one question.
Was it a real numbers car?
(He says with a wink)

 

[Darter6]

I believe it was.Basic 383 Bee.It's been awhile maybe 5 to7 years? You know the parts vendors throw many parts at the magazine builds. Now you got me thinking it may have had aftermarket air hence the pulley problems.