Procharged 440?

[lxmodguy]

There's no reason you have to loose the Lopey idle with FI. Especially with a pro charger. Don't be fooled by people who tell you FI requires a smooth cam. On a turbo setup maybe, but what's good NA generally works well with a pro charger. Now when you add boost you don't wanna have a 108 las because you want to broaden the powerband not narrow it. Besides its not about lsa entirely, valve events give the cam its idle. On a boosted motor you don't want a ton of overlap. It bleeds off boost. Too many folks profess to know about cams. The right cam is one that's matched to your heads, functions in your desired rpm range, and is tailored to your cubic inches, power adder, stall, and intended use of the car.

 

[Tzclark]

That was a good answer LX

 

[HYRDGOON]

LXmodguy it's not going FI. I already have the blowthru setup and chose to move forward with it. My understanding is all those aspects were taken into account when this can was spec'd.

 

[lxmodguy]

Well to be honest it has less to do with FI than it does with being the right cam for the other things I mentioned

 

[HYRDGOON]

Well to be honest it has less to do with FI than it does with being the right cam for the other things I mentioned

So are you saying you would have a different cam recommendation based on the info I've given?

 

[Sweet5ltr]

I would for sure. A few coats of high-temp primer (metal etching first most likely, similar to an engine), paint, and clear. Does your S/C have a textured surface? Probably can use some 300+ grit to smooth it out prior if you want 'that' look.

BTW my .590/272 @ .050/106 LSA camshaft worked great in my turbo application initially. Boost spooled quickly, and it sounded wicked (think cammed' V12). I will probably go back to it in the future once I get my converter re-flashed from 3400 to 3800 RPM. Using tractor fluid in the trans so my stall is tightened a bit.

 

[HYRDGOON]

View attachment 314851

If you look at Average Joe's Cam card my spec isn't too far off from his and that seems to be working well. Baring in mind I have his old fuel system and although not completely similar the builds are similar enough that the relation in cam spec seems pretty logical?

I was thinking the same just rough it up and hit it with high heat primer first then was actually thinking a high temp black wrinkle would look pretty cool?

Sweet5ltr I would really love to see more of your car and build. Hoping you start a build thread at some point or if there is one and I've missed it point me in the right direction please!

 

[lxmodguy]

So are you saying you would have a different cam recommendation based on the info I've given?

No. Just adding relevant info. To each his own. There's more than one way to skin a cat. You can get almost anything to work with boost. A great cam is drivable, is a balance between cylinder pressure and charge temps. The results of a incorrect cam in a boost engine is usually lower power output and engine life.

 

[lxmodguy]

Your cams solid for a pro charger btw.

 

[HYRDGOON]

Thanks! As always I appreciate the feedback.

Cheers!

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Hyrdgoon, you really need to read Corky Bells 'Maximum Boost' LINK--->(http://www.fusca.net/wp-content/uploads/Maximum_boost.pdf). It's one of the most comprehensive books on F/I out there, regarded as the 'bible of turbocharging'. Turbocharging has similar requirements to centrifugal supercharging, so the book is highly relevant.

Many tend to over analyze camshaft designs. Not all camshafts are equal, but let's face it, a vast majority of modern turbo builds utilize factory camshafts.

Check out these camshaft specs (657 rwhp/742 ft.lbs.)
http://www.hotrod.com/cars/featured/0711phr-1965-plymouth-belvedere/

Do you believe anyone would have recommended that camshaft? Well, it was recommended by none other than Corky Bell. I went with the .528 Solid Lifter from MP. 500 lift after lash, 241* @ .050, and 112 LSA (with slow ramp rates so it's easy on the valvetrain); it was about best 'off the shelf' grind I found. Had a Comp XE285HL, .509 MP, & .590 MP grind within the past few years. The .528 drives and idles near stock, so just be expecting a change. Turbo cars sound a bit different anyways, especially mine through a 5" DP. Yours may sound just as good with the S/C as it did N/A. My last S/C Saleen sounded really good with the Vortech and cam.

 

[lxmodguy]

The camshaft profile for a turbo and a centrifugal are not nearly as alike as you would think. Stock cams work ok with a turbo, but a custom grind cam will net you 100 more horsepower in most cases compared to a stock cam. Turbos do not work the same as anything else. Depends on the size of the motor, compression, compressor map, turbo placement, wastegate placement, weigh of the vehicle, and load vs rpm. Too many variable to say they are like anything else.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

The camshaft profile for a turbo and a centrifugal are not nearly as alike as you would think. Stock cams work ok with a turbo, but a custom grind cam will net you 100 more horsepower in most cases compared to a stock cam. Turbos do not work the same as anything else. Depends on the size of the motor, compression, compressor map, turbo placement, wastegate placement, weigh of the vehicle, and load vs rpm. Too many variable to say they are like anything else.

How much variation in specs are you stating here, 112-115 LSA, 230-240* @.050, .500-.600 w/ 1.5's is 99% the profile of street supercharger/turbo grinds? Many LS/GEN III Hemi/Coyote builds use factory based camshafts. My co-worker made 615 to the wheels on his complete factory 5.0 @ 10psi. He may have made 650 or so with a cam(s) swap, but who cares, its nearly impossible to hook up with that much power anyways on the street. That junkyard build made over 600hp/700 ft. Lbs. to the tire with an RV cam.. Just turn up the wick!

 

[lxmodguy]

Well since you asked. The cam in my motor is a 233/232 116 on a 112 centerline. A little north of 600 lift. Made north of 1400 out of 405 cubes at 20# in my buddies motor. I have another 21 cubes with identical heads, cam turbo setup.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Well since you asked. The cam in my motor is a 233/232 116 on a 112 centerline. A little north of 600 lift. Made north of 1400 out of 405 cubes at 20# in my buddies motor. I have another 21 cubes with identical heads, cam turbo setup.

Big hemi, big boost, and an even bigger wallet!

 

[lxmodguy]

The previous cam was for a blower. It was a 236/248 114 on 111 lsa. Well north of 600 lift. Was hoping for 1000 out of the same motor a the blower. So that's the difference between a blower and turbo in the same motor

 

[Sweet5ltr]

The previous cam was for a blower. It was a 236/248 114 on 111 lsa. Well north of 600 lift. Was hoping for 1000 out of the same motor a the blower. So that's the difference between a blower and turbo in the same motor

According to the D.C. Engine Manual, .600 lift is the highest lift possible with an RB without internal oiling and lifter bore modifications; so that's another strike against the wedge'. Both of your specifications were nearly identical to my estimated range, quite interesting when you think about it. There definitely is a 'sweet spot' when it comes to supercharger/turbo camshaft grinds; regardless of engine family.

BTW after some tuning, my camshaft regains its lope when the engine is leaned out (15:1-16:1 at idle vs. 13.5:1-14.5:1 idle AFR). You may want to try tuning the idle a bit on your setup to see if you have the same results. I couldn't even hear the camshaft before, it sounded like a stock car. Complete 180* with the leaner idle. Another piece of information was that I retarded my timing back to around 18* while cranking, and it cranked terribly and was very cold natured. Removed the start retard (32* locked timing) from the tune and the car cranks up first spin' and will idle perfectly within 10 seconds (many would expect the complete opposite). I set my timing curve to retard the timing back to 20* 800 RPM to 32* by 2,500 RPM (have 4* to play with on better fuel-36* total). Car runs perfect, I'm really surprised how much of a difference the tune made over locked timing. Also pulling 1.5* per # to be on the safe side with pump fuel (10:1 CR), that's a good tune to start off with.

 

[Phil McGrath]

According to the D.C. Engine Manual, .600 lift is the highest lift possible with an RB without internal oiling and lifter bore modifications; so that's another strike against the wedge'.

Ahhhh, what..... this only applies too MP/DC made/designed cams, there not going too test and tune other makers cams in there Factory engine book. As good as there Engine/Chassis books were there NOW very dated but they were also a big advertisement for factory engineered go fast goodies and if you followed there recipes you stood a good chance your junk wouldn't blow up and you could run a good number, now with that said the times have been changing there are cams with well over 600+ lift and not one uses the old school solid Mushroom type lifter that requires special machine work.

 

[Sweet5ltr]

Ahhhh, what..... this only applies too MP/DC made/designed cams, there not going too test and tune other makers cams in there Factory engine book. As good as there Engine/Chassis books were there NOW very dated but they were also a big advertisement for factory engineered go fast goodies and if you followed there recipes you stood a good chance your junk wouldn't blow up and you could run a good number, now with that said the times have been changing there are cams with well over 600+ lift and not one uses the old school solid Mushroom type lifter that requires special machine work.

Hey Phil,

Sure, they're dated, but isn't flat tappet technology dated in general? MP/DC camshafts are nothing more than Racer Brown designs at the end of the day, which are still being used quite regularly. *I failed to mention that solid roller's don't apply to that original statement*. All I can tell you is, even with mediocre valve springs, my .590 MP was showing heavy wear at 1,000 miles with ample amounts of zinc additive (I've installed 5 cams over the course of 4 years, Comp Cam's fast-ramp rate series being the lowest durability wise). These aren't street-able grinds at the end of the day, which the same can be said about larger solid roller grinds as well. I would still say the D.C. Engine Manual holds some great information, for a general performance build; which 99% of classic Mopars are. Fortunately, many of our members cars are garage queens, so there is no need to worry about camshaft wear outside of the 30' enclosed trailer :icon_cool:.

 

[Phil McGrath]

Hey Phil,

Sure, they're dated, but isn't flat tappet technology dated in general? MP/DC camshafts are nothing more than Racer Brown designs at the end of the day, which are still being used quite regularly. *I failed to mention that solid roller's don't apply to that original statement*. All I can tell you is, even with mediocre valve springs, my .590 MP was showing heavy wear at 1,000 miles with ample amounts of zinc additive (I've installed 5 cams over the course of 4 years, Comp Cam's fast-ramp rate series being the lowest durability wise). These aren't street-able grinds at the end of the day, which the same can be said about larger solid roller grinds as well. I would still say the D.C. Engine Manual holds some great information, for a general performance build; which 99% of classic Mopars are. Fortunately, many of our members cars are garage queens, so there is no need to worry about camshaft wear outside of the 30' enclosed trailer :icon_cool:.

Yes, solids are dated but its hard too argue with there performance reliability. If you were having heavy wear I suspect that the cam core was soft and no amount of zinc was going too help it/them. My only complaint with Mopar's solids was that there lash setting were always huge! The problem today with solids is that people get greedy and try too get solid roller horse powder and wonder why they killed the springs or the springs wiped the cam. If I were too run any solid grind I would have it Nitrated by the maker first, and subtract a few thou less lash during the break in before I ran it, but that's me.


No argument about the MP/DC engine/chassis book having good info, there a great foundation and as long as you keep a open mind all the new school tech falls into place easier.