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Re-Rebuilding the 440-493 in a 1970 Charger

KernDog, was the VR-1 oil you used for 5 years with success the conventional or synthetic version? And what made you switch and try that Redline synthetic that gave you problems?

The Amsoil Z-rod 10-40 high zinc synthetic that I use is formulated for use with flat tappet cams. Lots of users reporting good success. Dennis H is the one who turned me onto Amsoil. (thanks Dennis)

https://www.amsoil.com/reviews/z-rod-10w-40-synthetic-motor-oil-zrd/
 
If I didn’t have this hydroboost and all the problems I’m dealing with, the car would have been on the road weeks ago. Instead, I’ve installed and removed multiple pumps, pulleys, over a gallon of GM spec fluid, cuss words in numbers reaching 3 digits and a piss poor attitude.
It shouldn’t be this hard. The brakes haven’t felt right once. The lines are not blocked. They are in the right place.

I just put another pump in the reservoir. It was a used one from the shed. At first it made the typical grinding sound until it had pumped up. I hooked it up to the steering box only. Assist was excellent even at idle. I wanted to confirm that the pump was adequate to provide boost for the steering before hooking up the HB lines. The steering had me confident that I was DONE with steering pumps.
Then I saw the leak. It is coming from the bottom of the housing. See photos below:

image.jpg


Keep in mind, every time I change the pump, I have to swap over the reservoir, the brackets and the inline cooler.
The pump body has this big O ring that seals to the reservoir.

image.jpg


I think that is where I am leaking.
Regardless… it has to come out and get pulled apart to get to it.
 
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I would have ditched it by now and gone to a conventional system. You've tried many options to get it to work, time to move on and drive the thing I reckon.
 
Greg,
When you pull the m\c to adjust the brake rod nub, do you have enough play to keep the brake lines attached?
 
Yes. The master cylinder only needs to move forward about an inch or so.
I’ve dealt with excessive free play in the pedal on other applications. I had a 78 Trail Duster that needed to be adjusted out. The prior power booster setup I had on this car did too.
 
Given the "interesting" marketing of Amsoil, none of that brand will ever darken my garage's countertop -
don't care how good it may or may not be.
It's real simple for me - Mobil1 full synthetic for the modern ones, all of them bought new in their time:
- 1985 GLH Turbo (thanks Carroll Shelby!)
- 1989 5.0 Mustang (250k miles when sold and still strong)
- 1994 Dakota V-6 w/over 100k when traded
- 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee (mighty 4.0!) pushing 200k when traded in
- 2004 Ram 5.7 hemi ("Bert", still here after 175k trouble-free miles)
- 2006 Charger R/T 5.7 (90k when traded on current one)
- 2012 Charger R/T 5.7 (also at 90k, only we're keeping this one longer)
Keep in mind, in all of these - zero engine wear issues, ever. The Mobil1 just plain works and it's easily and
affordably bought just about anywhere, including WallyWorld by the 5qt jug.

All other vehicles, older and tractor and so forth have been on dino oil and will forever be, least under my care.
The choices for Fred the GTX are either Driven or VR1 high zinc conventional - again, easily purchased locally
(the VR1 can be also had at WallyVille in jugs).
Key words there are "conventional" and "zinc". Simple.
 
I closed up shop tonight with a minor victory.
I pulled the pump again and took it apart again. I took the O ring from another pump and put it all back together. NO leaks and the steering works like it should.
One thing that is a trait of mine is the determination to never leave meat on the bone. I don't like to lose and I don't like to give up.
This has good and bad elements to it. The good: I usually prevail and am glad that I followed through. The bad: When I keep at it while pissed off and intolerant, I'm probably not doing my health any good with all the yelling, cussing, cuts and scratches and such.

The pump that failed this morning was working fine yesterday but when I took it apart, I found the flow control valve and valve spring pushed way to the front.
If you haven't taken one of these apart, here we go:

Here is the back side. You can see the bracket mounts at approx 11 and 5 o'clock. These serve two functions. They hold the pump into the reservoir and they are a mounting point for the brackets.
There is a return nipple and at the bottom, unpainted is the union fitting that serves a few functions.
801 R.JPG


The fitting serves as the port to attach the pressure hose and also holds the following in place:

804 R.JPG


806 R.JPG





The flow control valve on the right determines the amount of boost that the pump will make. Rick Ehrenberg of Mopar Action magazine stumbled upon this discovery something like 10-12 years ago.
Take note of the picture below.

The green arrow points to a 7/16" headed bolt that screws into the valve. The red arrow points to a thin washer that fits under the head of the bolt.

805 R (2).jpg

V8 cars usually got one washer, the slant six cars got more. The more space between the head of the bolt and the valve, the lower the boost. Rick experimented with different amounts of washers to reduce the boost to an amount that he felt was acceptable. This trick has been covered in the forums before. From my memory, the most you'd want is .125 thick of washers. Beyond that, the pump starts to get choppy/notchy especially at idle with big tires.

I left just the one washer in place in the pump I just put in.

Regarding the brakes. Barring some miracle or intervention, I'm ditching the hydroboost. This unit is probably defective and I don't know if I have the patience to swap in another even if Dr Diff would be willing to send a second one.

I have a few ideas on what I might do.

I have the aluminum 15/16" manual master cylinder but I have a suspicion that it may not be adequate and may require too much leg pressure to stop. I want to teach Mary to drive a stick and that means that she will also need to stop the car without breaking a leg.

Modifying the brake pedal lever by drilling a hole above the stock hole improves leverage. I will probably do that if I switch to manual.

If that isn't enough, there is always a dual diaphragm vacuum booster and a vacuum pump.
I ran a vacuum pump awhile back when I ran this cam in this engine before. Braking was great and I couldn't hear the pump with the engine running.
My car was originally 4 wheel drum so if I went with a legit B body power setup, I'd need everything....The firewall plate, the booster, the reduction linkage under the dash and yet another master cylinder unless I could get a booster with a 2 bolt master cylinder pattern.
The final option is to clean and reinstall the A-body booster and master cylinder that I have used since 2000.
Maybe with the bigger front brakes, the car will stop better than ever.
 
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All other vehicles, older and tractor and so forth have been on dino oil and will forever be, least under my care.
The choices for Fred the GTX are either Driven or VR1 high zinc conventional - again, easily purchased locally
(the VR1 can be also had at WallyVille in jugs).
Key words there are "conventional" and "zinc". Simple.
If I can bring myself to enter a Wal Mart, that is tempting.
 
This has good and bad elements to it. The good: I usually prevail and am glad that I followed through. The bad: When I keep at it while pissed off and intolerant, I'm probably not doing my health any good with all the yelling, cussing, cuts and scratches and such.
Keep that up and you might wind up one day like....well, like me. :)

If I can bring myself to enter a Wal Mart, that is tempting.
Do what I do - enter directly through the automotive section. In, out, bada bing...
Oh BTW, they carry Mopar brand oil filters too. :)
 
Your hard work, determination, and detailed writing is inspirational and very helpful to many. Keep pushing and you’ll be behind the wheel again!

I use to hate Walmart and their self checkouts, until I found out about the employee discount you get at checkout :poke: :lol:
 
Thank you for the kind words.
I'm certain that my frustration is coming through to all that have read through this thread.
I want to show everyone what they might encounter when they take on a project like this. I will probably bore some people with my rants or some of the redundant explanation of boring tasks.
The upside is that I do show the dead ends that I encounter as well as the victories. These happen to us all so it is good to be prepared for them.
Thanks to all that have read and also to those that chimed in.
 
Given the "interesting" marketing of Amsoil, none of that brand will ever darken my garage's countertop -
don't care how good it may or may not be.
It's real simple for me - Mobil1 full synthetic for the modern ones, all of them bought new in their time:
- 1985 GLH Turbo (thanks Carroll Shelby!)
- 1989 5.0 Mustang (250k miles when sold and still strong)
- 1994 Dakota V-6 w/over 100k when traded
- 1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee (mighty 4.0!) pushing 200k when traded in
- 2004 Ram 5.7 hemi ("Bert", still here after 175k trouble-free miles)
- 2006 Charger R/T 5.7 (90k when traded on current one)
- 2012 Charger R/T 5.7 (also at 90k, only we're keeping this one longer)
Keep in mind, in all of these - zero engine wear issues, ever. The Mobil1 just plain works and it's easily and
affordably bought just about anywhere, including WallyWorld by the 5qt jug.

All other vehicles, older and tractor and so forth have been on dino oil and will forever be, least under my care.
The choices for Fred the GTX are either Driven or VR1 high zinc conventional - again, easily purchased locally
(the VR1 can be also had at WallyVille in jugs).
Key words there are "conventional" and "zinc". Simple.
Mobil 1 and VR1 conventional are excellent options as well :)
 
Regarding the brakes. Barring some miracle or intervention, I'm ditching the hydroboost. This unit is probably defective and I don't know if I have the patience to swap in another even if Dr Diff would be willing to send a second one.

I have a few ideas on what I might do.

I have the aluminum 15/16" manual master cylinder but I have a suspicion that it may not be adequate and may require too much leg pressure to stop. I want to teach Mary to drive a stick and that means that she will also need to stop the car without breaking a leg.

Modifying the brake pedal lever by drilling a hole above the stock hole improves leverage. I will probably do that if I switch to manual.

If that isn't enough, there is always a dual diaphragm vacuum booster and a vacuum pump.
I ran a vacuum pump awhile back when I ran this cam in this engine before. Braking was great and I couldn't hear the pump with the engine running.
My car was originally 4 wheel drum so if I went with a legit B body power setup, I'd need everything....The firewall plate, the booster, the reduction linkage under the dash and yet another master cylinder unless I could get a booster with a 2 bolt master cylinder pattern.
The final option is to clean and reinstall the A-body booster and master cylinder that I have used since 2000.
Maybe with the bigger front brakes, the car will stop better than ever.
Greg, I've been doing a lot of reading on brake installs for our mopars recently. On my 68, almost everything is non-original. I'm running stock rear drums with the small wheel cylinders and I have the A-body spindle conversion kit up front with 11.75" Wilwood discs and a 1-1/8" Raybestos blue MC with stock style re-pop distribution block. I've never been excited about my car's braking power. I used to run a 15/16" disc/drum Raybestos MC and it was even worse because the pedal was almost to the floor. With the 1-1/8" MC it's better, but not great. The pedal feel sucks. The pedal is not hard, but it's not engaging enough clamping force either.

So I got to reading last night and something that is talked about, but not widely enough on FBBO is the use of a separate vacuum canister. The thinking is that you only need this with a radical cam. Well, I have the bendix style dual diaphragm power booster and I've often thought the booster could be better. What I've learned is a bit different - to get one of these boosters to function as intended may actually require more vacuum than my motor is supplying. So even though my cam is mild, it is not stock, so I decided to try adding in a separate vacuum canister. It's $60 from Summit and easy to hook up. I'll install and give you my impressions in the next few weeks. As I recall, some of the stock older vehicles had vacuum canisters as factory, but not usually for the brakes - on my old '67 Impala it had one to help vacuum assist for the climate control vacuum actuated ducting doors. I came across a few articles on the vacuum canister and after reading the Summit reviews, it motivated me to give it a shot. Link is below.
Summit Racing SUM-G1464B Summit Racing™ Vacuum Reservoirs | Summit Racing
 
The vacuum can may help. My cam is pretty rowdy so the can wasn't enough for me.
 
Have you thought about a Cadillac or other brand electric vacuum pump?
 
Noisy, draws allot of amps & prone to failure... I'd look at a belt driven vacuum pump like off a diesel truck first... Super reliable, makes virtually no noise & pretty cheap... But you'd need to fab brackets & find room in the engine drive belts for it...

Vacuum Pump For 1994-1995 Ford F350 7.3L V8 ZC551WH | eBay
good to know.
I've read some good reviews on this quieter Silent Drive pump from MP Brakes. Anyone have good or bad experience with this one? Just presenting more options for KD.

Silent Drive Vacuum Pump
 
Have you thought about a Cadillac or other brand electric vacuum pump?
I actually did have one in the car the last time I had this cam in this engine and it worked well. I could have just went that route this time but I was on a quest to shave some weight. I guess sometimes, some extra weight is worth dealing with.
 
You might check your line pressure. You have symptoms of an overloaded pump.....s.
 
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