Re-Rebuilding the 440-493 in a 1970 Charger

[hunt2elk]

I run 10w-30 in all my motors and have plenty of oil pressure. I would think 20w-50 would raise them considerably?

 

[Kern Dog]

I think that Dwaynes suggestion was based on the high temperatures we see in the Summer here.

 

[ckessel]

Greg, you may want to try the coolants used by the mothership. The oe/factory coolants, Mopar/GM/Ford etc use a compound called "Bitrex" in them. This is an additive that makes the coolant taste nasty so pets, people etc don't ingest it like non oe coolant which is like Koolaid. Aftermarket suppliers don't have Bitrex in their coolants.

 

[Bee1971]

And your engine coolant operates at what temp even on those hot days ?

Your bearing clearances say 10W30

Your oil temp would bee next if concerned

If your oil pressure is fine and coolant temp is fine on those very hot days then


Why did you switch oils and add an additive when things where good with the Valvoline VR1 ?

 

[1STMP]

Now that I am faced with pulling the engine, I want to do a remove and reinstall from underneath. To do this, I needed to make some sort of cart to support everything. I started a thread on that too:

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopa...nstall-from-underneath.246546/#post-912250641

There were some great ideas posted there. I took some cues and started making my own. First up, I took a spare K member and a bare 440 block.

View attachment 1293000View attachment 1293002

Then I took a couple of steel dollies and welded some 2 x 3 channel....

View attachment 1293003

I noticed that the bottom of the K member had holes in it, not sure of their purpose originally. I decided to use them as guides to hold the engine to the stand. I welded 2 old 1/2" bolts to the "pads" so the K member cannot slide off.

View attachment 1293005


It is some bonehead engineering but I think that it will work.

View attachment 1293006

More updates tomorrow.

Hey, KD.
Bad news on your engine. It's frustrating to
say the least.
Your design for your engine stand is good
but I might suggest 6 gussets be added.
Two on each side from the bottom tube
to the base plate centered on the uprites.
plus 2 from the uprites to the bottom tube.
The mechanical engineer in me couldn't let
this go. You're going to have almost a 600
lb load, and it's cantilevered off center.
Sure would hate to hear of you getting
injured. Better safe than sorry.
P.S.: It's known industry wide that engineers
can't sketch worth a damn.

 

[Kern Dog]

And your engine coolant operates at what temp even on those hot days ?

Your bearing clearances say 10W30

Your oil temp would bee next if concerned

If your oil pressure is fine and coolant temp is fine on those very hot days then


Why did you switch oils and add an additive when things where good with the Valvoline VR1 ?

It runs right up to just shy of 200 and never goes past that.
The oil? I thought that synthetic might offer better protection so I gave it a try. Ooops!

 

[Geoff 2]

Syn oil does offer better protection. I would use nothing else.
Your temp gauge may read 200, but what is the surface temp at the rod brgs? 250*? Syn oils can maintain their oil film to higher temps than mineral oils before they break down. That is the major advantage of syn oil.

 

[bearman]

When you redue your a/c make sure you install service valves at the compressor. Then you get close off the system from the compressor after you reinstall it the only thing you have to evac is the compressor then add a couple of ounces of freon instead of the hole thing.

 

[70bigblockdodge]

I agree on the oil. I know everyone wants/thinks that thick oil is bad. Thin oil which is in favor now is fine for modern, fuel injected, roller cam engines. It gives them better mpg and they don't contaminate the oil the way a carbureted, large displacement, engine does.
Another way to view this is rear end and old manual transmissions use thick gear oil and automatics use approx 30w atf, both have gears meshing. The rear end and manual trans have sliding teeth meshing from helical teeth, automatics have no thrust planetary gear sets.
Unless you are running stock/weak valve springs you need a oil that will not squeeze out of the way under the bigger valve springs.
I agree 100% on no additives in oil unless you know that they are fully compatible with the detergent package. New detergent packages in SM, SN are very agressive against ZDDP. I also follow the rule that if it has a a API circle on the back of the bottle it is probably not good for your old flat tappet engine. Or at the very least you should research it with more scrutiny.
These are my opinions from what I have read, I am not a petroleum engineer so don't take it as gospel.

 

[Kern Dog]

The trans and clutch have been pulled and will get cleaned up for later.

The back of the engine seemed to be sealing well. No weeping from the gallery plugs, the aluminum end seal seemed fine too.

Right side motor mount seems fine.

The drivers side looks ready to come apart. Stuff like this often happens to me...a future problem found by accident.

 

[Kern Dog]

Debris found in the oil pan and windage tray. None of it was gritty or hard. It felt like small blobs of paste.

I cleaned the block and ran a wire wheel on a grinder to clean off the loose paint.

The oil pump shows some crud went through it....

It will get replaced but this time, I'll go with a standard volume version. I've been told that these high volume pumps are overkill for a street engine. I rarely touch 6000 rpms....I try to shift no higher than 5800. In regular driving, I do lean on it a bit but I don't have my foot through the radiator every time I drive it.

 

[Kern Dog]

Rod and main bearings all looked good except # 5 main. The bearing was scored a bit but the crank looks fine. I will probably get it polished just to be safe and of course, get new bearings.
The cylinders show very slight cross hatch. Rings are still sharp on the edges. I'll take the block, heads, crank, rods and pistons to the machinist tomorrow and get busy buying parts and cleaning the stuff I'll be reusing.

 

[Kern Dog]

The block, crank, pistons & rods and heads are at the machine shop. The guy is retired and working part time so this may take a few weeks. He confirmed .003 of bore taper so I went ahead and ordered the pistons in the .040 size. The crank is nearly perfect but # 5 main will get cleaned up.
OOooo.....New pistons are so pretty!

I went to the 440 Source store in Carson City and picked them up. Part # 5085, 440 block, 4.15 stroke, 24 cc dish. 1/16" top ring, 1/16" second ring.

Check out the recessed area between the 1st and 2nd ring groove.....

That is supposed to reduce flutter in the top ring so they seal better. Look at that thick top ring land....Have you seen later model pistons? The top ring lands are THIN....the reasoning is that the distance between the top of the piston and the top ring is thinner for reduced emissions....This is not a concern here.

 

[Kern Dog]

I asked the machinist to deck the block. He stated before that Mopar blocks are often hard as diamonds and wear him out! I'm aiming for anything between .005 to zero deck. Zero deck with the Fel Pro .039 gasket puts me at 9.8 to 1. .005 deck clearance is 9.7 to 1.
Here is a question that I'm unsure of.....
How is balance achieved in an engine if the rods don't have those stock type pads on the cap to grind on?
I have "Manley" H-beam rods with no pads on them. What if these pistons are lighter than the Ross pistons I've been using?

 

[furious70]

At this point shouldn't you just put a hemi in it?

 

[Kern Dog]

With some of the prices that I am seeing, I feel like I stepped into a Hemi Zone.
$840 for pistons and rings. $103 for main bearings. $144 for rod bearings. $102 for a standard volume oil pump. $137 for valve springs.
I built a 383 for my Jigsaw Charger in 2020. The prices for everything have really shot up.

 

[gtxdana]

I asked the machinist to deck the block. He stated before that Mopar blocks are often hard as diamonds and wear him out! I'm aiming for anything between .005 to zero deck. Zero deck with the Fel Pro .039 gasket puts me at 9.8 to 1. .005 deck clearance is 9.7 to 1.
Here is a question that I'm unsure of.....
How is balance achieved in an engine if the rods don't have those stock type pads on the cap to grind on?
I have "Manley" H-beam rods with no pads on them. What if these pistons are lighter than the Ross pistons I've been using?

The weight of good aftermarket rods are more consistent than the old school forgings so they don't need big balance pads for balancing. You can still grind on the top of the small end and the sides of the big end if needed. Lighter pistons shouldn't be a problem. You still need to weight everything to compute the new bobweight for balancing.

 

[Kern Dog]

That is another area where I am still unfamiliar.
In the 18 years I had the first version of this 440/493, I don't recall it ever having any vibrations and I don't recall seeing any holes or slugs in the crank from balancing. If these new pistons weigh different, is it in the crank where the balance is altered?

 

[gtxdana]

The weight will be added or removed from the crankshaft counterweights to balance the motor.

 

[Kern Dog]

That is what I thought. I just don't recall any work visible to this crank.