Should I buy this project 1969 Charger?

[DeltaV]

Nice article here:

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/20...both-defined-and-ended-his-career-at-chrysler

 

[Cojohnso1]

That Brownlee was right about the gas cap. GAS INLETS BELONG ON THE LEFT SIDE OF VEHICLES SOLD IN THE US! It's certainly one thing I do not like of same period Plymouths. Who ever had the idea putting gas nozzle behind rear license plate should be shot! (Professionally, not literally.) I understand it does save truck space and is more aesthetically pleasing? It's also awkward, leak prone and a little more dangerous.

 

[Fran Blacker]

A convertible would've nice especially if they made roof close to hard top.

 

[chargervert]

A convertible would've nice especially if they made roof close to hard top.

Sais wanted the fins to be part of the convertibles roof line,but the bean counters would have killed that plan because of the cost,and it would have shared the roof with the other B body convertibles. On my convertible,I used the factory body lines from the Satellite to simulate the area where the fins were. The drivers side body line ends at the fuel cap,and the passengers side fades at the same distance as the cap is from the well chrome trim. On the hardtop there is so much going on in that area,I thought to leave it flat and bare would be a sacrilidge!

 

[QOTHL]

Bill Brownlee,Head of the Dodge styling studio,wanted the second generation Charger clay mockup scrapped. He told Richard Sias,who had drawn the original double diamond sketches of the second generation Chargers,to get rid of it. Fortunately for us,Brownlee took a two week vacation, and Sais and the other designers finished the project. Brownlee's boss,who I believe was Virgil Exner saw the mockup and said that is what a muscle car is supposed to look like! Brownlee was livid when he returned and saw the mockup finished in the studio,he ranted and raved about how he told them to scrap the design. Once he found out that his boss loved the design he had to suck it up and accept it as the new Dodge Charger for the 68 model year The one thing that he did was walk over to the mockup, rip the fuel cap off the center of the rear tail panel and place it on top of the left rear quarter panel and turned to his subordinates and said, this belongs here! Sais got little to no credit for the second generation Chargers design, and Brownlee begrudgingly took the accolades for the cars success. It was the price Sais paid for going over the bosses head. When Sais left to work for an air craft company as an interior designer, his coworkers never believed him when he said that he designed the second generation Charger, and often laughed behind his back about it. One day one of his fellow former colleagues from the Dodge design studio showed up at the aircraft company with the design award for him,for designing the 68 Dodge Charger and gave it to him in front of his coworkers! That's how close the design was to going in the scrap bin. Sias also designed both the Charger and Challenger script emblems.

I had heard about Sais credited with the design but didn't know that much about the story, so thanks for the info! By the Grace of God that clown Brownlee was overruled. He obviously didn't have the good design sense to see how "perfect" this body style is. My guess is he saw that this car was way too different and was afraid it wouldn't be accepted by the public. I've seen this at car shows - my Charger parked in a row with all kinds of Chevy's and Fords, usually Chevy, Chevy, Chevy,
Chevy, Mustang, Camaro, Camaro, Corvette, Mustang, , and I noticed how elegant, graceful and yet powerful this car looks next to a lot of heavy looking bulky designs. I'm biased, that's why I bought this car. Usually the Chevy guys will admit they wish they had one. I've lost track of how many people have told me this is their dream car.

This is a review from Motor Trend if you've never read it, that is the best description of this etherial body style I've ever read. Notice that not once does he use the word "beautiful" and really doesn't need it.

Motor Trend wrote: (after getting inside the car) you look outside and see eerie sweeps of metal and hypnotic, fascinating shadows that soothe the pounding sun and make the car an almost organic protective embrace. Appearances are seductive from all angles. Doors flash back a sporty elegance.

Seductive, really good word. Also, sensual as opposed to sexual. The contour of the front fender is like the contour of an elegant athletic thigh, unlike the shape of the same year GTO fender.

Whoever came up with the changes for 1969 - genius.

 

[Cojohnso1]

They are beautiful cars. In an era with many beautiful cars. Certainly '68-'70 is finest years of US automotive design in history? And that is a bold statement. Being the late '20s and '50s were no slouches.

 

[Cojohnso1]

One of my 1969 whining earlier in this thread was why a base model '69 Charger 383 auto can fetch 10% more on the open market than my '69 base model GTX 440 4-speed? I forgot that we did a quick poll at our local pub to those just walking up. (Some knew the cars. Many didn't.) Which car would they take right now. The Charger is a nice blue with black bucket interior console. Vs GTX F8 green camel tan split benchseat interior no console. (If I get a chance I'll see if someone took a pic of the cars sitting side by side. Like a dummy, I didn't.)

The Charger won 9 votes to 6. So democracy has spoken.

Them Chargers are just hot! Who ever designed the car.

 

[QOTHL]

One of my 1969 whining earlier in this thread was why a base model '69 Charger 383 auto can fetch 10% more on the open market than my '69 base model GTX 440 4-speed? I forgot that we did a quick poll at our local pub to those just walking up. (Some knew the cars. Many didn't.) Which car would they take right now. The Charger is a nice blue with black bucket interior console. Vs GTX F8 green camel tan split benchseat interior no console. (If I get a chance I'll see if someone took a pic of the cars sitting side by side. Like a dummy, I didn't.)

The Charger won 9 votes to 6. So democracy has spoken.

Them Chargers are just hot! Who ever designed the car.

As far as desirability is concerned there is also the production # factor. There were a LOT more GTX's produced and there are crossovers for it unlike the Charger which stands alone and has comparatively low production numbers. The GTX is a handsome car and beats the snot out of most other muscle cars in terms of style but, no offense, the beauty of the 2nd gen Charger is unmatched in my humble opinion.

They are beautiful cars. In an era with many beautiful cars. Certainly '68-'70 is finest years of US automotive design in history? And that is a bold statement. Being the late '20s and '50s were no slouches.

The '71 'Cuda is no slouch either.

 

[QOTHL]

Very similar stories out of Ford and GM. DeLorean sneaking GTO out the doors. Iacooca believing Ford needed to get sexier and faster. Ford fell a bit flat on the Muscle car front. Mustang saved some grace. (Actually started the Pony wars.)

It's true to this day. Suits who are successful in business start believing they are artists as well. True success is those who let their creative staff create.

Unfortunately not just suits but car customizers as well. They think they can make themselves out as a hot **** in a champagne glass by thinking they can improve on the design of a 2nd gen Charger. A true artist would recognize any addition or subtraction to a design like that would only ruin it. And they have. I hate to think of how few of these cars were made, how few are left and then some clown custom guy destroys one of them. Ring Brothers come to mind as well as others. Great craftsman, not great artists/designers.

 

[Cojohnso1]

As far as desirability is concerned there is also the production # factor. There were a LOT more GTX's produced and there are crossovers for it unlike the Charger which stands alone and has comparatively low production numbers. The GTX is a handsome car and beats the snot out of most other muscle cars in terms of style but, no offense, the beauty of the 2nd gen Charger is unmatched in my humble opinion.



The '71 'Cuda is no slouch either.

Actually. Many more Chargers produced than GTX. About 90k to 15k for '69. I putt my GTX to a local St. Paul show 2 years back. (About 150-200 cars.) I was the only GTX. (Thus did get some attention. I spent most my time explaining the difference of GTX and GTO to the younger crowd. Lol.) There were RoadRunner, Chargers even 2-3 Superbee. With even E-bodies with a decent representation.

My favorite car was a '63 Savoy stage 3 Max Wedge 426. Original with 4-speed. He wouldn't take a trade even up? (Thought I would try? Lol.)

 

[QOTHL]

Actually. Many more Chargers produced than GTX. About 90k to 15k for '69. I putt my GTX to a local St. Paul show 2 years back. (About 150-200 cars.) I was the only GTX. (Thus did get some attention. I spent most my time explaining the difference of GTX and GTO to the younger crowd. Lol.) There were RoadRunner, Chargers even 2-3 Superbee. With even E-bodies with a decent representation.

My favorite car was a '63 Savoy stage 3 Max Wedge 426. Original with 4-speed. He wouldn't take a trade even up? (Thought I would try? Lol.)

I stand corrected. I thought I read that there were over 300K RR/ GTX's produced. But that makes my point. Rare isn't always a factor and the 2nd gen Charger, especially the 69, will always be in demand. This is a body style that will be popular 100 yrs from now. This is industrial art at it's finest. I've shown my Charger for five years averaging 20 shows a year and there have been less than a dozen shows that had another 2nd gen Charger there. I've been to shows with over 1000 cars and mine is the only one. Not many GTX's either! Not many Mopars period!

 

[QOTHL]

And after all of this discussion about these cars, that is what the thread is about: if it is worth saving a 318 1969 Charger. The body style is so desirable that cars are being saved that would otherwise be destroyed. What's unfortunate is that a lot of cars were junked because the technology didn't exist to make it worth saving them. Now almost anything is possible.

I'm glad my cars are in a separate building otherwise I would be tempted to stare at them all day! I never get tired of looking at this model.

 

[1 Wild R/T]