Strange spark plug problem. I can't get #3 threaded in properly.

[BB BELLA]

just pull the head and fix it!

 

[4406bbl]

I certainly had to find a sense of humor in the ways my life has become "not my own", largely due to my wife finding different ways to coerce me into doing "tasks" and "projects", many of her own designs without any consultation.
Having just wrapped up a 5 or so years long Freddy Kruger level nightmare construction project on a "vacation home" I have been doing all I can to say "no" within generous reason.
Still building momentum in backing away from my indentured servitude role, but 5 big dogs and a 40# pig, her in the last 6 months or so of NP school (she had better make 6 figures plus from graduation on) with me having to pick up the slack, and my one man small business.
It's a lot, but I have blessings and God has shown me His Grace, so I have tools to break free of the long, difficult stretch of darkness I found myself in.
I still have a long way to go, but I'm heading in the right direction.

I hear ya brother, self employed for 49 years now....business, and family first, cars and me last, and I still get more done than most. That is a blessing.

 

[biomedtechguy]

I hear ya brother, self employed for 49 years now....business, and family first, cars and me last, and I still get more done than most. That is a blessing.

My field of work in "healthcare" is truly a blessing. Having a longtime thought process conducive for the kind of troubleshooting I do is something I "brought in" with me to my new (current) business, and back in 2004 I had also started and built a 1 man business before this one, from about 14 years of experience in Home Theater, audio, video, CCTV and so on, and that had a good run for what it was up until 2010. My personal Theater Room and the room of a client being published in a magazine was and is a magnificent highlight of all of those years
A 2 year investment of my time in my local Community College gave me the piece of paper to enter my field at the lowest rung of a corporate behemoth, GE Healthcare, but my real growth and pathway to where I am now came from the owner of a privately held medical equipment repair and service company I worked for as an intern as a requisite to graduate. He was brilliant in electronics, servicing medical equipment, and was a teacher at a Vo-Tech school a couple of decades back. I was very happy to leave GE and get on with his company full time, and in the meteoric rise of my duties and experience I learned enough after 3 years to step out and up. That was 6½ years ago and I'm still doing well.
I'll close this post with a prayer of gratitude for God's blessings and grace, and to Mr. P.K. (Rest In Peace) who brought me on as an employee in a mostly family business.

 

[Budnicks]

I'm with a few others on here I like NGKs the best
used them for decades in all my racecars, MoPar or GMs
even when I got Champion or Autolite (or Motorcraft) for free,
from one of my sponsors
I preferred & used the NGK, just seem to have way better luck with them

I did try some E3s in my truck,
still not 100% sure yet, hasn't been long enough, to make an educated knowledgeable decision
but it starts like normal, instantly, always has, it drives like normal, it always has
but it idles a tad better it seems
I'm getting 'shockingly' about a 1 mile to 2 miles a gallon better average
'probably more just being new plugs, wires, rotor & cap, than plug design'
(I was warned about the tips "allegedly" falling off E3s by a trusted member here
after I had already installed them, called & requested & eventually even talked to
'some engineer' at E3, he eased my concerns/worries some, we'll see)
I had right at 60k miles on the MoPar orginals, in the 5.2 ltr Magnum
(they looked a lot like NGKs)
with a bunch of bolt-ons, Hypertech programmer & Flowmasters 3" cat back system,
AEM air box/gauze filter, swirl spacer, HS 1.7:1 rollers etc.
so far so good, Magnum engines (or LA) are so easy to change plugs

 

[mopar 3 B]

Honey dew list. I’m not even married yet, and I knew that.

Been married for 47 years. No honey dew list here. Must be something for the wimpy hubby.

 

[Big Bad Dad]

From dog poop to brussell sprouts. Still no plug fix. Sound like how I work on my Mopars too... By the way, my wife loves brussell sprouts. I eat them to be polite. I think of them as the testicles of the vegetable world though....

 

[biomedtechguy]

Been married for 47 years. No honey dew list here. Must be something for the wimpy hubby.

Not really. It takes more of the qualities of what a husband should have to do things I really don't want to, or I feel like she should have done, than to tell her no or just leaving it undone.
BUT
There is a limit, and I've been past that for too long, thus the move to ease my way back to making time for me.

 

[eldubb440]

the 3 day oil filter guy is an amateur

 

[biomedtechguy]

From dog poop to brussell sprouts. Still no plug fix. Sound like how I work on my Mopars too...

I know it's a sprawling thread, but I knew I wouldn't have any time most or all of this week. I'm buried in work in the field, so no way to get to the plugs.
OTOH, $5K for the job I'm on helps pay bills and buy 572 engine parts.

 

[mopar 3 B]

Not really. It takes more of the qualities of what a husband should have to do things I really don't want to, or I feel like she should have done, than to tell her no or just leaving it undone.
BUT
There is a limit, and I've been past that for too long, thus the move to ease my way back to making time for me.

Ha! Not have a honey due list doesn't exclude helping out. I like eating on clean dishes just as the next person. Even let her cook occasionally. But that entails a clausal kitchen cleaning afterward. How anyone can dirty so much and accomplish so little. But still she knows better than to make me one of those blasted list. Hey women pack your bags and move out or do it yourself. My mother taught me how to take care of myself and the wife knows it.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Ha! Not have a honey due list doesn't exclude helping out. I like eating on clean dishes just as the next person. Even let her cook occasionally. But that entails a clausal kitchen cleaning afterward. How anyone can dirty so much and accomplish so little. But still she knows better than to make me one of those blasted list. Hey women pack your bags and move out or do it yourself. My mother taught me how to take care of myself and the wife knows it.

 

[BB BELLA]

just jamb a whistle in that plug hole and everyone will thing you got big turbo's cooking!

 

[biomedtechguy]

October 20, 2022 until Saturday March 4th, 2023....
To change 8 spark plugs!!!
SMOH (Shaking My Own Head)
Well, after I "hit the obstacle" of the spark plug that had thread problems in the iron cylinder head (cross threads or "material" that didn't belong there), I did order that thread chaser that has the 4 splits along its length and the voids those splits create do allow you to collapse the diameter down to just small enough to push the threaded end through and beyond the spark plug hole threads, slightly into the combustion chamber. I also used a little heavy viscosity grease on the threads of the chaser to catch any debris that is removed as the chaser is turned counterclockwise in the process of cleaning the head plug threads.
I was extremely careful to avoid contact as much as possible with anything in the spark plug threaded head hole as I pushed the collapsed down chaser in.
I then pulled the inner "fluted" rod into the tool, which spreads the diameter outwards to match the diameter of a spark plug's threads, and locked the rod INTO the outer threaded cylinder of the chaser.
I was also very careful to get it STRAIGHT relative to the threads in the head, and fortunately I got a good bite on the threads as I turned it ccw in the process of backing it out, chasing the threads. The new spark plug went in without any resistance, so that was a success. Thanks for all the help and suggestions!!
On the same (driver's side) bank of spark plugs, the plug closest to the firewall proved impossible for either of the two 13/16ths deep sockets I have to slide on and over the spark plug "hex" so I couldn't get a bite on that one. I stopped by Home Depot and grabbed the only 13/16 dee7⁷⁸p socket they had. As soon as I got home I tried it and VOILA! it got past the header tube diameter and got a bite on the hex of the spark plug! The rest of the spark plugs took the "usual" contortions and oddball combination of tools to remove and replace them, but I was glad to have got it done. Just about all of the spark plugs had black "soot" on the ends in the combustion chamber and many had a gasoline smell even though it had been months since I had turned over the engine. I already knew from my dual wideband O2 setup, reading from as rich A/F as in the 11.2:1s to the mid 12.6:1s that it's been running rich under most driving conditions.
I needed to change these 5+years old plugs, but I was also hoping this would be THE solution for my 440 6bbl running so badly. Initially after the change, I am 100% certain the engine was running MUCH better, and as an example, to compensate for how "off" it was, now the idle speed screw had to be backed out to bring the IDLE RPMs down to appx 950-1k RPMs from 2k RPMs!!
The disappointment is that as my local cruising around went on, the tune degraded. I have the biggest noticeable problem in the 2100 to 2700 RPM range on a light pedal, just enough gas pedal pressure to maintain my speed.
I can feel and hear the driveline as it's stressed and unstressed from it "missing"...
So to cap off my contributions to this SAGA:
* I definitely needed to change out the spark plugs, even though I was doing it mainly in the process of trying to fix my 440 6bbl running badly, after having checked and cleaned/treated all of the ignition system electrical contact points, fuel delivery and that not fixing the problem.
* I need to get my O2 Sensor System Guage and wiring back in place, up and running. It was removed by a shop to do a LOT of work on my Roadrunner, and I needed both O2 sensors replaced. I REALLY need this helpful information to get my tune dialed in.
I need to jet my center carb down.

 

[RJRENTON]

October 20, 2022 until Saturday March 4th, 2023....
To change 8 spark plugs!!!
SMOH (Shaking My Own Head)
Well, after I "hit the obstacle" of the spark plug that had thread problems in the iron cylinder head (cross threads or "material" that didn't belong there), I did order that thread chaser that has the 4 splits along its length and the voids those splits create do allow you to collapse the diameter down to just small enough to push the threaded end through and beyond the spark plug hole threads, slightly into the combustion chamber. I also used a little heavy viscosity grease on the threads of the chaser to catch any debris that is removed as the chaser is turned counterclockwise in the process of cleaning the head plug threads.
I was extremely careful to avoid contact as much as possible with anything in the spark plug threaded head hole as I pushed the collapsed down chaser in.
I then pulled the inner "fluted" rod into the tool, which spreads the diameter outwards to match the diameter of a spark plug's threads, and locked the rod INTO the outer threaded cylinder of the chaser.
I was also very careful to get it STRAIGHT relative to the threads in the head, and fortunately I got a good bite on the threads as I turned it ccw in the process of backing it out, chasing the threads. The new spark plug went in without any resistance, so that was a success. Thanks for all the help and suggestions!!
On the same (driver's side) bank of spark plugs, the plug closest to the firewall proved impossible for either of the two 13/16ths deep sockets I have to slide on and over the spark plug "hex" so I couldn't get a bite on that one. I stopped by Home Depot and grabbed the only 13/16 dee7⁷⁸p socket they had. As soon as I got home I tried it and VOILA! it got past the header tube diameter and got a bite on the hex of the spark plug! The rest of the spark plugs took the "usual" contortions and oddball combination of tools to remove and replace them, but I was glad to have got it done. Just about all of the spark plugs had black "soot" on the ends in the combustion chamber and many had a gasoline smell even though it had been months since I had turned over the engine. I already knew from my dual wideband O2 setup, reading from as rich A/F as in the 11.2:1s to the mid 12.6:1s that it's been running rich under most driving conditions.
I needed to change these 5+years old plugs, but I was also hoping this would be THE solution for my 440 6bbl running so badly. Initially after the change, I am 100% certain the engine was running MUCH better, and as an example, to compensate for how "off" it was, now the idle speed screw had to be backed out to bring the IDLE RPMs down to appx 950-1k RPMs from 2k RPMs!!
The disappointment is that as my local cruising around went on, the tune degraded. I have the biggest noticeable problem in the 2100 to 2700 RPM range on a light pedal, just enough gas pedal pressure to maintain my speed.
I can feel and hear the driveline as it's stressed and unstressed from it "missing"...
So to cap off my contributions to this SAGA:
* I definitely needed to change out the spark plugs, even though I was doing it mainly in the process of trying to fix my 440 6bbl running badly, after having checked and cleaned/treated all of the ignition system electrical contact points, fuel delivery and that not fixing the problem.
* I need to get my O2 Sensor System Guage and wiring back in place, up and running. It was removed by a shop to do a LOT of work on my Roadrunner, and I needed both O2 sensors replaced. I REALLY need this helpful information to get my tune dialed in.
I need to jet my center carb down.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR EXCELLENT NARRATIVE....and a resolution to your problem.....now begins the debate over WHICH PLUGS (brand and features) to use and are "best" for your specific application, along with spark advance characteristics, ported or manifold vacuum advice and which carb jets should be used.....it is likely that you will besieged with "expert" advice, and the only way to do anything....just my opinion of course...
BOB RENTON

 

[RemCharger]

THANK YOU FOR YOUR EXCELLENT NARRATIVE....and a resolution to your problem.....now begins the debate over WHICH PLUGS (brand and features) to use and are "best" for your specific application, along with spark advance characteristics, ported or manifold vacuum advice and which carb jets should be used.....it is likely that you will besieged with "expert" advice, and the only way to do anything....just my opinion of course...
BOB RENTON

Bob he's got a six pack problem. You're up!!!

 

[RJRENTON]

Bob he's got a six pack problem. You're up!!!

AND SO DO I....RS23V0A******, and using #66 jets in the center Holley carb, original Prestolite dual point distributor with 35° total advance all in at 2400 RPM with NO VACUUM ADVANCE, using Mopar 292° duration and 0.509" lift cam @ 4° retard, Crane 1.6 ratio rockers, with iron heads, Champion UJ-11G (or HO-8A) spark plugs, 4 speed car and 4.10 Dana 60, runs extremely well on the street....but this is exactly what I wanted...I do not intend to race it...just an occasional street use vehicle ...many will disagree....but that's OK...
BOB RENTON

 

[biomedtechguy]

Thanks for the replies.
I had my 6bbl dialed in pretty well, with the exception of probably too much jet I put in the center carb (#67 IIRC vs #62 or 63 for stock manual trans). I also had the 6bbl modded by Promax with the center carb metering plate, and jetable outboard carbs plates, angled idle mixture screws on the rear most carb.
The FBO Ignition system has worked well, I got the whole setup, control module, distributor w/tunable vacuum advance, total timing limiter, and setup by Don at FBO for my mods. It really improved the performance, especially at idle.

 

[biomedtechguy]

AND SO DO I....RS23V0A******, and using #66 jets in the center Holley carb, original Prestolite dual point distributor with 35° total advance all in at 2400 RPM with NO VACUUM ADVANCE, using Mopar 292° duration and 0.509" lift cam @ 4° retard, Crane 1.6 ratio rockers, with iron heads, Champion UJ-11G (or HO-8A) spark plugs, 4 speed car and 4.10 Dana 60, runs extremely well on the street....but this is exactly what I wanted...I do not intend to race it...just an occasional street use vehicle ...many will disagree....but that's OK...
BOB RENTON

BOB!! I had no idea that was the story on your car, you have what I believe is the IDEAL "street car" step up from stock equipment to have a fun to drive, better than average "hop up" combination-"old school style"
I am not 100% certain (no measurements taken) but I believe and I've been told by citizens of the Mopar Nation that the Purple Stripe (confirmed) cam in my 440 6bbl is the 292/.509 hydraulic Direct->Connection cam. Everything points to it vs the 1 step down. I put new lifters, springs, locks, retainers in because it definitely needed the springs.
I am absolutely getting the Progression Ignition system for my 572, but I'd like to try it in my 440 6bbl, but every time I try to buy one, Ted at Progression is about to release a "new and improved" version so I've waited.
Anyway, I want to APPLAUD your combination. If I wasn't having a 572 built, because it's my once in a lifetime dream, and I'm doing it, and if I was staying with my stock block 440 6bbl, I would dial in the parameters I have, basically what you have, because it's such an amazing, BALANCED use performance package!

 

[RJRENTON]

BOB!! I had no idea that was the story on your car, you have what I believe is the IDEAL "street car" step up from stock equipment to have a fun to drive, better than average "hop up" combination-"old school style"
I am not 100% certain (no measurements taken) but I believe and I've been told by citizens of the Mopar Nation that the Purple Stripe (confirmed) cam in my 440 6bbl is the 292/.509 hydraulic Direct->Connection cam. Everything points to it vs the 1 step down. I put new lifters, springs, locks, retainers in because it definitely needed the springs.
I am absolutely getting the Progression Ignition system for my 572, but I'd like to try it in my 440 6bbl, but every time I try to buy one, Ted at Progression is about to release a "new and improved" version so I've waited.
Anyway, I want to APPLAUD your combination. If I wasn't having a 572 built, because it's my once in a lifetime dream, and I'm doing it, and if I was staying with my stock block 440 6bbl, I would dial in the parameters I have, basically what you have, because it's such an amazing, BALANCED use performance package!

THANK YOU FOR YOUR EMAIL AND INFORMATION AND comments.....it's just a toy for sunny weekend use....and ..... occaisional stop light contests....like the times encountered during the WOODWARD AVENUE DREAM CRUISES.....
BOB RENTON

 

[biomedtechguy]

Mopar 292° duration and 0.509" lift cam @ 4° retard, Crane 1.6 ratio rockers

Now that I'm not in the field, I can zoom in on the quoted specs.
I'm far from knowledgeable in engine building or design, but I am pretty sure that:
Before split timing and some of the "newer" cam spec concepts and practices were developed, like hydraulic roller cams and the advantages of the steeper ramps, area under the circle, etc, the "292°/.509" hydraulic flat tappet cam was "legendary", certainly in the window of maintaining the relative "ease of maintenence and installation" for a shade tree, weekend warrior owner who had reasonable mechanical skills, wanted to keep driving their muscle car often if not daily, but was looking for "better than average" increases in performance.
I believe it would be accurate to say that with a stock short block, the valve reliefs ("eyebrows") cut into the flat top factory 6bbl pistons by Ma Mopar, that even with the 1.6 ratio rocker arms and remaining within 4° +/- of straight up cam installation, valve-to-piston clearance is not a problem?> I really like the 1.6 ratio giving that last bastion of clinging to a hydraulic lifter a little more lift, vs plunging into the realm of solid flat tappet cams, and the ramifications of doing so. I'm sure solid vs hydraulic isn't the "maintenance nightmare" some may imagine it to be, as a matter of fact I'm counting on it as I have solid rollers specd out for the 572 and I definitely don't want to spend a lot of time under the hood nor in the shop.
Also, your installing the cam at 4° retarded should mean a little lower dynamic CR, reducing the likelihood of pinging (pre-detonation) on the fuel available now vs back in 1970. I'm of the opinion that the Chrysler 440 has ample torque by design, and again, the cam you have installed as it is should move the power curve UP in the RPM range, giving up some low RPM torque (that is abundant by nature) which on "DOT legal" tires may well be beneficial to prevent "roasting" them from a dead stop yet boosting higher RPM horsepower! This also makes that extra bit of lift a complimentary spec, since the RPM power band has been moved up, I think more lift goes well with the higher RPMs.
I know from my own experience that a 4.10 ring and pinion lends to better low RPM performance from a dead stop, but the fun factor runs throughout the RPM range. I've countered the detrimental aspect of the higher R&P gear ratio with my Passon 5 speed overdrive, and it's that 5th gear that brought me to swap the 4.10 gears IN and the factory TrackPack 3.54s out.
AGAIN, I am really happy to read about this combo you have, it isn't so "hot" as to make the factory dual-plane 6bbl intake a detriment, although the 6bbl intake outperforms its apparent "on paper" performance expectations. I know how happy I've been with the overall performance of my setup, which is almost identical to yours, especially for a mostly street, sunny day driver, with tires like my Toyo Proxes TQ drag radials to put that power down instead of up in smoke, the joy we have in driving with the occasional spontaneous "speed challenges" is hard to beat!