Temperature Issues

[1967coronet]

Air flow is measured by CFM (Cubic Feet / Minute) x SP (Static Pressure) at a given density. What is the AREA of the radiator you're holding the dollar bill against......that proves nothing except air is being pulled thru.......it doesn't show HOW MUCH AIR (CFM) is being moved or the pressure or the engine rpm.....
BOB RENTON

 

[Tyron68]

The # 2806070 clutch is TORQUE DRIVE unit installed on MOPAR'S HP engines.....it will not slip at low rpms. It will work on a non a/c car just fine, but may be a little noisier at low speed. As a repro unit, it's expensive..~ $300. Every one balks at the repro cost; price for the Hayden unit at ~ $50. By using aftermarket radiators, space to accomodate the correct clutch becomes critical, hence the use of the HAYDEN clutch, which does not perform adequately. As I see it, your easiest solution is drive the water pump faster for a higher fluid flow (velocity). A suggested sheave for the water pump is # 2946716 and a suggested fan is # 2863216 (a HEMI 7 aluminum blade steep pitch blade shape at 18 1/2" diameter). You can find both on line and thru MOPAR only part suppliers.
BOB RENTON

I do have the 216 fan. I had to wait for it as it was on back order for months but I received it last week. I’ll see what I can find on the sheave. Thanks

 

[Black_Sheep]

Get a clutch from a 91 Jaguar. I don’t know the number anymore. It’s known as the problem solver for tight radiator clearance. I’ve had them on several mopars over the years. I don’t know if it’s a torque drive or not, but I do know they work.

It is a viscous unit (no thermal spring on the radiator side)

I had one on the GTX for 20 years. It eventually failed, easily freewheeling when I spun the fan blade by hand…

 

[Tyron68]

The Jag clutch is 2765 it's ok, the 2947 is shorter still and drives the fan a higher percentage of the time..

The 2947 one is what I just got at Oreillys as it is the only one I could find that would fit with the aftermarket radiator. So is the 2947 crap?

 

[1 Wild R/T]

The 2947 one is what I just got at Oreillys as it is the only one I could find that would fit with the aftermarket radiator. So is the 2947 crap?

No, they work pretty well in spite of what the engineer from Boeing thinks... Plus they fit in the space you have to work with so that's a plus...

 

[Jeff Peterson]

the engineer from Boeing

 

[Sinitro]

The 2947 one is what I just got at Oreillys as it is the only one I could find that would fit with the aftermarket radiator. So is the 2947 crap?

A great solution...
Consider a Mopar OE replacement part called #FC28, supplied by TRW and/or McQuay-Norris...
Has the closed hub rather than the universal slots. Height is a 2 5/8", a great solution when used with 3 or 4 core radiator.
I had (2) of them, frequently these appear on E-bagger.

Just my $0.02...

 

[RJRENTON]

No, they work pretty well in spite of what the engineer from Boeing thinks... Plus they fit in the space you have to work with so that's a plus...

First, I'm not from Boeing. The problem can be traced to NOT trying to duplicate what MOPAR engineered. The GLENN RADIATOR is expensive....so everyone or slmost everyone goes to aftermarket aluminum designs to save $$$, but spend the same smount of $$$ or more fiddly ******* around trying to achieve the same results. Radiators or heat exchangers are designed to transfer BTU/Hr (heat) generated in the engine to the air via the circulated coolant.......regardless of the advertising saying: "this radiator will cool *** HP"...except its not a hp function but the WASTE HEAT or excess heat generated by the engine and not propelling the car. 500 hp engine will not produce 500 hp worth of waste heat. For example....
1HP ≡ 9,500 BTU/hour) so, 9,500 btu/hr x 500 hp = 4,750,000 btu/hr heat load which in reality does not occur. Only the waste heat or unused heat is exchanged. But everybody just accepts the hp number as gospel. Likely only 10-15% of the total published hp will be required to be transferred as waste heat. Air conditioning adds additional heat load (latent heat) to the radiator's cooling air, making it less effective or a bigger radiator is needed. As noted b4 thermodynamics is an exact science but one must know numbers to accurately design the cooling system.....the shotgun approach does not work......
BOB RENTON

 

[1 Wild R/T]

First, I'm not from Boeing. The problem can be traced to NOT trying to duplicate what MOPAR engineered. The GLENN RADIATOR is expensive....so everyone or slmost everyone goes to aftermarket aluminum designs to save $$$, but spend the same smount of $$$ or more fiddly ******* around trying to achieve the same results. Radiators or heat exchangers are designed to transfer BTU/Hr (heat) generated in the engine to the air via the circulated coolant.......regardless of the advertising saying: "this radiator will cool *** HP"...except its not a hp function but the WASTE HEAT or excess heat generated by the engine and not propelling the car. 500 hp engine will not produce 500 hp worth of waste heat. For example....
1HP ≡ 9,500 BTU/hour) so, 9,500 btu/hr x 500 hp = 4,750,000 btu/hr heat load which in reality does not occur. Only the waste heat or unused heat is exchanged. But everybody just accepts the hp number as gospel. Likely only 10-15% of the total published hp will be required to be transferred as waste heat. Air conditioning adds additional heat load (latent heat) to the radiator's cooling air, making it less effective or a bigger radiator is needed. As noted b4 thermodynamics is an exact science but one must know numbers to accurately design the cooling system.....the shotgun approach does not work......
BOB RENTON

That's a whole lotta words about a radiator that cools fine once the car is moving.... Focus on the problem, it get's hot when it's sitting still... That points to airflow, not radiator...

 

[RJRENTON]

That's a whole lotta words about a radiator that cools fine once the car is moving.... Focus on the problem, it get's hot when it's sitting still... That points to airflow, not radiator...

I recommend that you read the book "Crane's Flow of Fluids" ......yes...air is a fluid....as it explains the principles of heat exchange thru a fix surface heat exchanger.....volume of air and its density and surface srea affect the heat exchange. Q (heat in btu/ hr) = M (mass or volume) x Cp (specific heat of the heat exchange media) x Delta T (Temperature Differences). It will be obvious that area, volume and velocity are crucial factors. If more heat exchange is required, the variables need to change.
BOB RENTON

 

[Some Car Guy]

If you’ve got a super capacity radiator and/or high water flow, it can make up for low airflow. If you are spot on, or marginal with those things, you need high or perfect airflow.

I had a car that taught me a lot about the cooling system for mopars. The fan was backwards, it had no shroud, plus it had a 22 inch hole that was never cut bigger, yet because it was a 26 incher with a high flow pump and stat, it cooled better than any car I’ve had or even heard or seen from friends with other brands. It also had good underhood heat management with coated headers.

When I caught the fan being backwards(was like that when I bought it), it made zero difference in cooling when turned the proper way.

The fan shroud was held together with duct tape when I got the car. Took it off to do the water pump and it crumbled. Thought I’d pick up a new one later, put car back together and started driving it. Never had an issue. People swore it would be all kinds of trouble.

I had a 180 stat in the car, it held right on it, put a 195 in to keep the oil cleaner in the old factory built engine that was getting black quickly, it held right on that as well. When you hear “system will settle in wherever it wants to” that means the system isn’t capable of maintaining control of the heat, for whatever reason, capacity or flow.

Mechanical gauge before and after these changes disagreed with the experts on the things I’ve always heard.

 

[Tyron68]

Wanted to update where things turned out. Got the radiator installed this weekend and took the car out. The temp outside was over 100. The car in traffic got up to about 200 degrees. When I got home and car parked in drive way it went up to 205. On highway it stayed about 180. So about 20 degree difference in traffic compared to where it was. However, I didn’t install my shroud. So I’m gonna be doing that in the coming weeks and will see where I’m at. Thanks again for the feedback.

 

[hunt2elk]

I bet you will be good once the shroud is installed.

 

[Tyron68]

I think so too. Was probably dumb that I didn’t go ahead and just put the shroud on, but I wanted to know the exact impact that the shroud has on my new set up. So I’ll update again once that’s on.

 

[Demonic]

Is there no problem with the temperature at cruise/highway speeds?

 

[Tyron68]

Is there no problem with the temperature at cruise/highway speeds?

No at cruise/highway speeds it was fine.

 

[Some Car Guy]

I don’t know if it was covered already, but make sure you have a matched set of pulleys.

 

[Tyron68]

I don’t know if it was covered already, but make sure you have a matched set of pulleys.

So when I installed the vintage air kit it came with an alternator bracket and shim kit to use if needed. The compressor and the crankshaft pulley were in perfect alignment. I did have to use the shim kit for the alternator. So everything is all good with the pulleys. I may at some point need to change out the alternator pulley as the v groove doesn’t match exactly to compressor pulley (it’s a tad smaller).

 

[RJRENTON]

So when I installed the vintage air kit it came with an alternator bracket and shim kit to use if needed. The compressor and the crankshaft pulley were in perfect alignment. I did have to use the shim kit for the alternator. So everything is all good with the pulleys. I may at some point need to change out the alternator pulley as the v groove doesn’t match exactly to compressor pulley (it’s a tad smaller).

My digital calipers measure dimensions in decimal numbers, ie, 1.500" or metric dimensions, it does not have a "tad" scale. Perhaps there is a conversion factor to convert "tad's" to a decimal number. For example one tad = 0.375" ??? Just curious....
BOB RENTON

 

[WileERobby]

My digital calipers measure dimensions in decimal numbers, ie, 1.500" or metric dimensions, it does not have a "tad" scale. Perhaps there is a conversion factor to convert "tad's" to a decimal number. For example one tad = 0.375" ??? Just curious....
BOB RENTON