The Elephant In The Room: unloading the load from a B-body.

[fullmetaljacket]

Thought id throw this in here. Apparently you can separate most 3 and 4 groove mopar pulleys and run just a single groove for all us “no power steering” guys. If you look closely at these style crank pulleys they have 4 spot welds. Drill them out and separate the pulleys. Worth the work, stock pulley started at 4.1 lbs and single modified version ended at 1.9 lbs. This is on a 440 that I shift at 6200rpms, I did not notice any weirdness “aka vibrations” after this.

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I would think since the pulley is bolted to the balancer via 6 bolts, the balancer and pulley become one and no balance issues would arise. My bolts are 6AL4V Titanium.

 

[Orange71SE]

I would think since the pulley is bolted to the balancer via 6 bolts, the balancer and pulley become one and no balance issues would arise. My bolts are 6AL4V Titanium.

I would like to do titanium bolts as well but im trying to stick to free weight reduction at the moment. So far seems to be going ok.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

I would like to do titanium bolts as well but im trying to stick to free weight reduction at the moment. So far seems to be going ok.

Yes, I hear you. There is so much that can be deleted or modified at no costs. Though, a micro look into things and expendables would argue that drill bits and such have a cost.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Gents and ladies.
Put all your readings to sleep. This 2nd Edition of "WE WERE THE RAMCHARGERS" is a must get and read. Never before seen photos and written words as witness to a set of mad scientists who had pairs in their lairs. Dave Rockwell does an exceptional job in laying out the series of events that led drag racings most successful team into the history books. Ralh Giles writes the forward and Steve Magnante reflects back on his early years when he was exposed to the teams achievements.
Putting lightweight stuff aside, it's a historical window to a bygone era the likes that we will not see again.

 

[Badvert65]

Gents and ladies.
Put all your readings to sleep. This 2nd Edition of "WE WERE THE RAMCHARGERS" is a must get and read. Never before seen photos and written words as witness to a set of mad scientists who had a pairs in their lairs.
Putting lightweight stuff aside, it's a historical window to a bygone past the likes that we will not see again.

View attachment 1702280

Where did you get it? I am only seeing the first edition (that I already have).

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Where did you get it? I am only seeing the first edition (that I already have).

I went through SAE, the distributor of the book. They can process your order on the phone or on their website. It had sold out at Carlisle where the Ramchargers were stationed. I missed it by a few minutes.

I can't put it down and yet it is a heavy book. So much history inside those various garages, AFX schematics and all. What's really amazing to read is how the Ramchargers were destined to be who they were because of Walter P. Chrysler's breakthroughs and Tom Hoover's serendipitous run in with a special engine in one of the dyno rooms one day. Nuff said without giving away the beginnings nor the ending.

 

[rmchrgr]

We Were The Ramchargers 2nd Edition

 

[Mopar John]

So it's been a while since I have posted about the weight loss on my 1970 GTX drag car!
I left off just when one of the single most significant items was next!
For years I had been doing things back and forth with a friend of mine who does my transmissions.
I had been bugging him to do a 904 with an ultra bell behind my 440 race engine.
He had been resisting and I just went out and bought a JW 904 to Mopar big block ultra bell.
I show this item in my first picture.
Then I got a 904 case and cut it down for the ultra bell conversion.
I show that in my second picture.
My GTX was running the quarter mile at 10:30 at the time.
My friend agreed to build the 904 with his best parts.
The results is that the GTX went from 10:30 down to 10:00!
The weight went from 3097LBS down to 3057LBS with a lot of the weight being rotating weight!
When I had my new 493 stroker engine built we had a few issues but my tranny guy has worked them out.
The GTX is running as fast as 5.99 1/8th and 9.43 1/4 in good air!
I take it to him for a check-up at the end of each season and usually little to no parts replacement.
In case your wondering he now does these for other customers.
Keith Long the 727 Specialist and now 904's!
MJ

 

[Tex013]

dealt with Keith before , nice guy

Tex

 

[fullmetaljacket]

That there flyweight is flying for such a huge car. Congrats on the trans bell persuasion to your buddy and subsequent weight loss.
Does the ultra bell protect against a sprag and or drum detonation?
Isn't your GTIIIX all steel except for the hood and front bumper?
Very impressed with this car.
As far as Bells, strange that with all the factory support back in the Ramcharger days, no-one thought of and pushed through the idea of an ultra-bell like housing for the infamous clutch-flite.

 

[Mopar John]

Lee,
The ultra bell is an SFI piece but only protects the convertor, flywheel and flexplate.
So you still need a shield ( what I use ) or a blanket ( to heavy ) for the drum and internals.
Yes, the GTX is all steel except the hood and front bumper.
By the way you are looking at original paint, stripes, stainless and vinyl top.
The first produced with the bright green limelight paint on August the 6th 1969!
We just had the engine freshened and learned some things!
I expect it to break both the 1/8th mile and 1/4 mile times when better air gets here in the midwest!
MJ

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Lee,
The ultra bell is an SFI piece but only protects the convertor, flywheel and flexplate.
So you still need a shield ( what I use ) or a blanket ( to heavy ) for the drum and internals.
Yes, the GTX is all steel except the hood and front bumper.
By the way you are looking at original paint, stripes, stainless and vinyl top.
The first produced with the bright green limelight paint on August the 6th 1969!
We just had the engine freshened and learned some things!
I expect it to break both the 1/8th mile and 1/4 mile times when better air gets here in the midwest!
MJ

Super cool.
That's what I was thinking. The bell protects against a rogue converter, flywheel and flex plate and a shield further down stream protects against the evil internals. Always a good thing to be armored up and down the trans case just in case.

First limelight out the gate in '69? nothing to be BITTER about that I guess. LOL.

Mid 9's in an all metal stretched B-body is good on my table of contents any day.
Keep boogieing.

 

[rmchrgr]

Mopar John your trans sounds like a home brew Pro Trans.

Conventional Chrysler wisdom says all things being equal the 904 is generally worth a 1/0th in ET over a 727. 3/10ths seems like a pretty big deal with just the unit change but it basically does prove the adage that less rotating mass=less friction and overall weight which obviously helps the car overcome inertia quicker. Your car is also light enough to be able to use a 904. If you were 2-300lbs heavier you'd probably be pushing it.

I'm a 904 guy but it's behind a small block in a 3,000lb A body. No JW bell and nothing trick or rollerized in it but I did start with a genuine, '70s' non-lockup 999 which is the HD version of the 904 that came behind 360 equipped vans and trucks. Mine has 6 front clutches and 5 rear, billet l/r piston and springs, 3 pinion steel planet, 4.2 lever, A&A "race case" and a few other small parts.

Not that I was looking to make a habit of it but I have installed the unit myself on my back. Tough to do that with a 727 of any variety.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Mopar John your trans sounds like a home brew Pro Trans.

Conventional Chrysler wisdom says all things being equal the 904 is generally worth a 1/0th in ET over a 727. 3/10ths seems like a pretty big deal with just the unit change but it basically does prove the adage that less rotating mass=less friction and overall weight which obviously helps the car overcome inertia quicker. Your car is also light enough to be able to use a 904. If you were 2-300lbs heavier you'd probably be pushing it.

I'm a 904 guy but it's behind a small block in a 3,000lb A body. No JW bell and nothing trick or rollerized in it but I did start with a genuine, '70s' non-lockup 999 which is the HD version of the 904 that came behind 360 equipped vans and trucks. Mine has 6 front clutches and 5 rear, billet l/r piston and springs, 3 pinion steel planet, 4.2 lever, A&A "race case" and a few other small parts.

Not that I was looking to make a habit of it but I have installed the unit myself on my back. Tough to do that with a 727 of any variety.

I'm my back last time out in Area 51 garage, my 727 with dual pumps in it had me aching for 24/7.
For some kind of insurance and peace of mind, mine has a CSR shield hovering above the main case. All steel floor above that and prayers above that.

 

[Mopar John]

Mopar John your trans sounds like a home brew Pro Trans.

Conventional Chrysler wisdom says all things being equal the 904 is generally worth a 1/0th in ET over a 727. 3/10ths seems like a pretty big deal with just the unit change but it basically does prove the adage that less rotating mass=less friction and overall weight which obviously helps the car overcome inertia quicker. Your car is also light enough to be able to use a 904. If you were 2-300lbs heavier you'd probably be pushing it.

I'm a 904 guy but it's behind a small block in a 3,000lb A body. No JW bell and nothing trick or rollerized in it but I did start with a genuine, '70s' non-lockup 999 which is the HD version of the 904 that came behind 360 equipped vans and trucks. Mine has 6 front clutches and 5 rear, billet l/r piston and springs, 3 pinion steel planet, 4.2 lever, A&A "race case" and a few other small parts.

Not that I was looking to make a habit of it but I have installed the unit myself on my back. Tough to do that with a 727 of any variety.

rmchgr,
Thanks for your nice reply with all the 904 info!
I don't think we rollerized anything but I do remember a lightened sun shell, elimination of the governor, aluminum park gear and more!
By the time I installed the 493 stroker a LOT more had been done weight wise to make it easier on the 904.
When I remove or install the trans I loosen the header bolts and get the front up on jack stands.
I get the trans up there on blocks and then get a floor jack under it mainly for lining things up.
A ton easier than the big 727's!
I will try and share more here in a more timely fashion.
Currently the GTX weighs 2895 lbs and I average 155 lbs in the summer.
MJ

 

[Mopar John]

I'm my back last time out in Area 51 garage, my 727 with dual pumps in it had me aching for 24/7.
For some kind of insurance and peace of mind, mine has a CSR shield hovering above the main case. All steel floor above that and prayers above that.

Lee,
I run a CSR big block shield over it all and the steel floor tunnel is also in place.
I was really worried on the first pass with the 493 stroker!
But it was the first and last pass on the old 8 3/4 rear instead!
The next thing I did was eliminate the stock leaf springs and went to Cal Tracs with their mono-leafs and Rancho shocks.
The weight loss for this conversion was 16lbs bring the total at that time down to 3041lbs!
MJ

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Lee,
I run a CSR big block shield over it all and the steel floor tunnel is also in place.
I was really worried on the first pass with the 493 stroker!
But it was the first and last pass on the old 8 3/4 rear instead!
The next thing I did was eliminate the stock leaf springs and went to Cal Tracs.
The weight loss for this conversion was 16lbs bring the total at that time down to 3041lbs!
MJ

The Cal-Trac mono leaf is steel and not fiber composite I gather.
My launcher (Tri-City) springs weigh more than my car. LOL. Stiff as a dead dinosaur.

 

[dvw]

I've refreshed a few Pro-Trans 727's with billet 904 guts this year for customers. The weight of a stock 727 was 126lbs. The weight the last Pro-Trans was 98lbs. Thats with a stock 727 case.
Doug

 

[fullmetaljacket]

I've refreshed a few Pro-Trans 727's with billet 904 guts this year for customers. The weight of a stock 727 was 126lbs. The weight the last Pro-Trans was 98lbs. Thats with a stock 727 case.
Doug

WHattttt? 98 Lbs?
Doug, are you building them from scratch for your customers?

 

[dvw]

WHattttt? 98 Lbs?
Doug, are you building them from scratch for your customers?

No Dave Smith from Pro-Trans stuff is a work of art. Most internal parts are billet aluminum, toringtons thruout, up to 6 pin planets, multiple gear ratios available. I repair/freshen them. The last one I did had stripped an input hub when it broke the Dana on launch. The part pictured us about 20 years old. Seen plenty of 850+hp passes
Doug