The Elephant In The Room: unloading the load from a B-body.

[fullmetaljacket]

I'm still debating what my long term plans are for the car.
I'm not sure if it should be restored factory stock or left as a drag car since that is what the dealership used it for.
I'm still trying to find more history on the car.
It was from the Long Island New York area when new.
The car is stuck in the 1970's.
It is on slotted mags wheels with the old drag slicks from back then still on it.
I would like to find a nice pair of original fenders for it.

Do you have pictures of it as it is now?

 

[HersheysHemi]

Do you have pictures of it as it is now?

This is the day my cousin got the car years ago. Looks the same.
I don't know why the fenders are blue.
As of right now I just want to paint the fenders white and re paint the hood.
Then get the thing drivable and try to make it to one of the Mopar shows next year.

 

[33 IMP]

Thanks for the reply. I was just curious when fiberglass fenders started making their first appearance in drag racing on production cars?
I have a 1969 hemi roadrunner that was a Plymouth dealership's drag car when new and it has fiberglass fenders on it.
I'm just curious if they existed in the early 1970's or didn't come out till early 1980's?

The way you phrased your question, my answer would be 1963, on the 427 Ford lightweight (galaxy body, but not a galaxy, a 300?)
GM and Mopar were using aluminum for their lightweights in 62 (pontiac and chevy) and 63, but Ford used fiberglass.
For your 69, I'm sure there were 68 glass fenders available that could have been used on the second day.

 

[HersheysHemi]

The way you phrased your question, my answer would be 1963, on the 427 Ford lightweight (galaxy body, but not a galaxy, a 300?)
GM and Mopar were using aluminum for their lightweights in 62 (pontiac) and 63, but Ford used fiberglass.
For your 69, I'm sure there were 68 glass fenders available that could have been used on the second day.

Ok thanks.
I just wasn't sure when that stuff came into existence for normal guys.

 

[33 IMP]

Okay, I was off, slightly.
There were a few (VERY few,) lightweight Ford post galaxies in 62. Dual quad 406, bw 4sp, glass hood, trunk, doors, fenders, aluminum bumpers and inner fenders, and some interior bits missing.
About the same weight after all that as a stock steel 413 maxwedge.
Mopars in 62 were about 4-500 lbs lighter than a FE engined Galaxie, ford's were no way competitive without LOTS of help. Things had definitely changed by 64. (Lightweight hemi's and thunderbolts. And Chevy and pontiac....gone.)

 

[HersheysHemi]

Okay, I was off, slightly.
There were a few (VERY few,) lightweight Ford post galaxies in 62. Dual quad 406, bw 4sp, glass hood, trunk, doors, fenders, aluminum bumpers and inner fenders, and some interior bits missing.
About the same weight after all that as a stock steel 413 maxwedge.

The thunderbolts were cool cars.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

The thunderbolts were cool cars.

My assumption about larger cars, and in this case the B-bodies, the larger they are, the more opportunities exists to hide the weight tricks because the overall body size is still the same. A fiberglassed scoop hood combo may enlarge the overall perimeter shape, but it may be lighter than a unassuming flat steel hood.
Hershey Hemi. It looks to me like the hood on your RR is steel with a fiberglass pro-stock scoop?

 

[33 IMP]

My assumption about larger cars, and in this case the B-bodies, the larger they are, the more opportunities exists to hide the weight tricks because the overall body size is still the same. A fiberglassed scoop hood combo may enlarge the overall perimeter shape, but it may be lighter than a unassuming flat steel hood.
Hershey Hemi. It looks to me like the hood on your RR is steel with a fiberglass pro-stock scoop?

....and it looks like a stock steel bumper. Peculiar choices for a car with glass fenders. A glass bumper would probably save nearly as much as a pair of fenders, and a glass hood even more. (I would think. I bet FMJ KNOWS!).

 

[fullmetaljacket]

....and it looks like a stock steel bumper. Peculiar choice for a car with glass fenders. A glass bumper would probably save nearly as much as a pair of fenders (I would think. I bet FMJ KNOWS!).

More or less yes, you're right 33. It also depends on the bumper design and real estate that it protects/covers. For instance, the '64 front bumpers are much heavier than the '65s because of their design and coverage, but the car bodies themselves are pretty much almost the same. IIRC, my friends stock '64 front bumper weighed something like 33 Lbs and my stock '65 front bumper was almost 22 Lbs more or less.

A few things could have happened to this Hemi bird over the course of the last 55 years such as: the hood which in this case looks like a steel unit might have replaced a fiberglass unit that subsequent owners were using after the dealership dropped sponsorship.
I suspect that bird got a whole front end donated after some event or another. Usually dealerships sponsored cars with their original steel panels unless it was an Experimental class such A/FX, FX,FX?

Case in point, there's a NYC based '70 Super Bee named (Trick Dodge) that was a street race car from the minute it left the showroom. Trick it was as it was one of the first cars secretly running lots of tricks such as the original front fenders, hood and bumper were used as templates to make and replace with VFN type fiberglass pieces. This indicates that either the steel pieces were the first ones to be used by a manufacturer to create fiberglass parts or they were part of a shade tree backyard project. These original steel parts (sans the hood) were recently found in Brooklyn and remnants of the fiberglass laying were evident on the fenders backsides. Strange isn't it?
Lots of fatalities to these glass pieces have been well documented over the history of race cars in general. Even some of the aluminum front end cars have shown wear and tear and gotten replacements either with new aluminum or steel.


Picture my car 50 years from now. People will be perplexed as to what was what and when but will only get answers through me while I'm breathing, articles and or books. A car from a dealership with an (so far) undocumented pass can be a bottle with a message that may never wash up on shore.

 

[HersheysHemi]

More or less yes, you're right 33. It also depends on the bumper design and real estate that it protects/covers. For instance, the '64 front bumpers are much heavier than the '65s because of their design and coverage, but their bodies are pretty much almost the same.

A few things could have happened to this Hemi bird over the course of the last 55 years such as: the hood which in this case looks like a steel unit might have replaced a fiberglass unit that subsequent owners after the dealership were using.
Case in point, there's a NYC based '70 Super Bee named (Trick Dodge) that was a street race car from the minute it left the showroom. Trick it was as it was one of the first cars secretly running lots of tricks such as the original front fenders, hood and bumper were used as templates to make and replace with VFN type fiberglass pieces. This indicates that either the steel pieces were the first ones to be used by a manufacturer to create fiberglass parts or they were part of a shade tree backyard project. These original steel parts (sans the hood) were recently found in Brooklyn and remnants of the fiberglass laying were evident on the fenders backsides. Strange isn't it?
Lots of fatalities to these glass pieces have been well documented over the history of race cars in general. Even some of the aluminum front end cars have shown wear and tear and gotten replacements either with new aluminum or steel.
I suspect that bird got a whole front end donated after some event or another. Usually dealerships sponsored cars with their original steel panels unless it was an Experimental class such A/FX, FX,FX?

Picture my car 50 years from now. People will be perplexed as to what was what and when but will only get answers through me while I'm breathing, articles and or books. A car from a dealership with an (so far) undocumented pass can be a bottle with a message that may never wash up on shore.

Ya it is hard to know the car's past life without finding previous owners.
Hood is steel. The scoop was added for tunnel ram clearance.
Wish I knew why it had blue fiberglass fenders.
I believe the car was a race car it's whole life.
It has a roll cage and like I said is still on vintage drag slicks.
If cars could talk lol.

 

[Cranky]

Not for nothing, everyones input on here has been more than inspirational.
Amongst the many that have contributed - Cranky, Gooser and others, there are some unique players here that are moving the needle in the right direction such as Malex and Stage 3.

I'd like to see what becomes of Badvert's '65 Bel.

It sounds like Fourgearsavoy is loading up to release that clutch with a few less pounds onboard.

DVW is well on his way to another great year no matter what weight he comes in at. Lucky devil.

You Rmchgr, are well on your way to having a potent light A-body not to mess with.

.........But the one guy that intrigues me like no other is Mopar John here with his "Bitter Limed" full bodied '70 GTX. This guy is on a whole other level of patience at weight loss.

Keep it going fellas.

I'd not be surprised if this forum slows down during the summer months anyway because SOME OF US live near tracks and are actively racing, but Winter is project and weight loss time.

Thank you for the mention!!!! Just wish I could continue with the weight loss.....

You got it. Thank Scott and DVW for doing that though. The post has been archived for a long time now since it's almost 20 years old. It's still the only thorough reference out there for modifying 904s though so I'm glad it's still viewable. Just be aware that some of the part #s that got added in towards the end may no longer be available or have been superseded.

Several years ago I made a post of my own on FABO specifically about the 999 variants. To be clear, my post was only to show what the few application-specific parts inside look like. How to identify a 999 transmision.

Though I wasn't old enough to know, I have a feeling back in the '60s and '70s no one gave a rat's *** about 904s. There's a brief passage about them in the old Mopar Chassis bible so the factory engineers must have understood their benefits in milder race cars but I'd bet most of the time they got pulled and scrapped in favor of a 727.

I learned about the the smaller transmission many years ago but I was more about being a 'stick' guy...

More or less yes, you're right 33. It also depends on the bumper design and real estate that it protects/covers. For instance, the '64 front bumpers are much heavier than the '65s because of their design and coverage, but their bodies are pretty much almost the same.

A few things could have happened to this Hemi bird over the course of the last 55 years such as: the hood which in this case looks like a steel unit might have replaced a fiberglass unit that subsequent owners after the dealership were using.
Case in point, there's a NYC based '70 Super Bee named (Trick Dodge) that was a street race car from the minute it left the showroom. Trick it was as it was one of the first cars secretly running lots of tricks such as the original front fenders, hood and bumper were used as templates to make and replace with VFN type fiberglass pieces. This indicates that either the steel pieces were the first ones to be used by a manufacturer to create fiberglass parts or they were part of a shade tree backyard project. These original steel parts (sans the hood) were recently found in Brooklyn and remnants of the fiberglass laying were evident on the fenders backsides. Strange isn't it?
Lots of fatalities to these glass pieces have been well documented over the history of race cars in general. Even some of the aluminum front end cars have shown wear and tear and gotten replacements either with new aluminum or steel.
I suspect that bird got a whole front end donated after some event or another. Usually dealerships sponsored cars with their original steel panels unless it was an Experimental class such A/FX, FX,FX?

Picture my car 50 years from now. People will be perplexed as to what was what and when but will only get answers through me while I'm breathing, articles and or books. A car from a dealership with an (so far) undocumented pass can be a bottle with a message that may never wash up on shore.

I know once I die someone will say when they see my car is 'what was he thinking' LOL

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Since we're in intermission during the dog days of summer, here's a little pleasant surprise that I discovered today as far as weight loss.
My old but great running 950 1000CFM ThumperDart carburetor which weighed a whopping 9-1/2 Lbs is getting replaced by another more improved CNC billet ThumperDart piece. This new beautiful piece weighs in at 7 Lbs.

This exchange shaved off 2-1/2 Lbs up high and front of the car.

 

[Badvert65]

FMJ, your mailbox is full.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

FMJ, your mailbox is full.

trying to empty it now. Thanks.

 

[Badvert65]

You've got mail.....

 

[rmchrgr]

Case in point, there's a NYC based '70 Super Bee named (Trick Dodge) that was a street race car from the minute it left the showroom. Trick it was as it was one of the first cars secretly running lots of tricks such as the original front fenders, hood and bumper were used as templates to make and replace with VFN type fiberglass pieces. This indicates that either the steel pieces were the first ones to be used by a manufacturer to create fiberglass parts or they were part of a shade tree backyard project. These original steel parts (sans the hood) were recently found in Brooklyn and remnants of the fiberglass laying were evident on the fenders backsides. Strange isn't it?

As I wait for my dinner to be delivered to my humble abode, I give you Ye Olde Trick Dodge from the November 1975 issue of Hot Cars Magazine. Couple real gems in this article.
"The car weigh(t)s 3,425 lbs and has a 440 engine."
"Disc brakes were replaced with Dodge 11-inch drums to save on weight."
"Further weight reduction was achieved by cutting down the gas tank to eight gallon capacity - enough for three runs down the quarter."

Englishtown Raceway Park, 1990s.

Never bet against the driver.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

As I wait for my dinner to be delivered to my humble abode, I give you Ye Olde Trick Dodge from the November 1975 issue of Hot Cars Magazine. Couple real gems in this article.
"The car weigh(t)s 3,425 lbs and has a 440 engine."
"Disc brakes were replaced with Dodge 11-inch drums to save on weight."
"Further weight reduction was achieved by cutting down the gas tank to eight gallon capacity - enough for three runs down the quarter."
View attachment 1705282
View attachment 1705283

Englishtown Raceway Park, 1990s.
View attachment 1705284
Never bet against the driver.

Thank you RmChrgr.
Driver AKA "Glasses" is the quickest foot breaker on the east coast. He's the second or third owner. Car is a factory 6ix pack Dana trac pack and was a terror on the street. Allegedly was one of the first cars running on Mo-Jo juice as well.

When I last worked on it, it had the glass fenders, glass front bumper, glass hood, gutted steel doors. I reinstalled the fixed Lexan side glass in place of the Plexiglass glass before then. Car is currently being restored to its street race self. It would be really cool if the original type Ansen wheels would be included.

 

[Cranky]

Perhaps I figured it out now. Perhaps. Try it now.

It took me a bit to figure it out too shortly after the system upgrade. Not sure I'll have to figure it out again on the next dump lol. I'm a creature of habit and doing something once or twice a year just doesn't sit in my memory bank for long. The upgraded membership allows for a lot more PM's before having to delete them but the mods have unlimited amount which can be good but can also become a burden. Right now I have 25 pages whereas not too long ago there were 45 and with 25 pm's per page........well......

 

[fullmetaljacket]

It took me a bit to figure it out too shortly after the system upgrade. Not sure I'll have to figure it out again on the next dump lol. I'm a creature of habit and doing something once or twice a year just doesn't sit in my memory bank for long. The upgraded membership allows for a lot more PM's before having to delete them but the mods have unlimited amount which can be good but can also become a burden. Right now I have 25 pages whereas not too long ago there were 45 and with 25 pm's per page........well......

Finally dumped and cleared the mail box, thus making it lighter. Now there's room for hate mail. LOL.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

This thing looks and feels light just sitting there. One of histories specimens that I worshipped and modeled my car by.