The Elephant In The Room: unloading the load from a B-body.

[fullmetaljacket]

As crudely Frankenstein as the day they got made and stitched together.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Doctor's orders.
Supposedly, this is a thin menu of special items that were presented in a original proposal letter to NHRA in late '63 by Chrysler's reps. The original letter stated many more special parts that were questionably produced or not produced or installed on the cars. Who knows. A true detective story that's yet to be written. Steve Magnante, are you listening.

I can proclaim one thing 50 years later though. You can believe that I elaborated on that letter and then some.

 

[HersheysHemi]

I used to be a big Pontiac guy before Gm killed the brand off. One month in high performance Pontiac magazine there was a guy in his late 80's that came out to tell his story of his 1965 factory built drag car that he raced new. The whole body was made from aluminum. The Pontiac experts went nuts saying it was fake and Pontiac never made such a car but he proved it was a secret factory effort and they did a big feature on the car in a later issue.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

I used to be a big Pontiac guy before Gm killed the brand off. One month in high performance Pontiac magazine there was a guy in his late 80's that came out to tell his story of his 1965 factory built drag car that he raced new. The whole body was made from aluminum. The Pontiac experts went nuts saying it was fake and Pontiac never made such a car but he proved it was a secret factory effort and they did a big feature on the car in a later issue.

Those rumors supposedly have never been confirmed by an actual site of the car, but there were at least five '65 Goats that had every panel on the bodies stamped out of thin gauge steel to make 'em much lighter. They are on record as special factory experimental cars that slipped out the back door and ended up at Royal.
The aluminum version is not so far fetched in my book only because Pontiac was fooling around with aluminum parts way before their other GM counterparts and definitely before Chrysler.

 

[dvw]

Since aluminum panels were deemed illegal by NHRA for 65 this wouldn't have made much sense. Thats why 65 cars all had chemically dipped steel panels.
Doug

 

[gooser]

1960 nhra race detroit dragway pontiac had 8 bolt aluminum wheels said to be 80 lbs lighter then the steel wheels and a aluminum front bumper

 

[fullmetaljacket]

1960 nhra race detroit dragway pontiac had 8 bolt aluminum wheels said to be 80 lbs lighter then the steel wheels and a aluminum front bumper

Yes, the Pontiacs and their aluminum items. They even had aluminum nosed Tempest wagons running the gamut. Who knows though on all this stuff. For all we know, there could have been entire cars made out of the light alloy, but people involved stood quiet.
As DVW said, '65 was the turning point and the earning point for whatever and whomever were really competitive. Thin gauge/chemically milled steel was the new fad and some companies had to go back to the drawing boards or enter other experimental classes.

 

[33 IMP]

1960 nhra race detroit dragway pontiac had 8 bolt aluminum wheels said to be 80 lbs lighter then the steel wheels and a aluminum front bumper

The wheels were light cause they didn't have a center. How much heavier than normal was the giant 8 bolt drums and hubs?
(Net weight savings might have been twenty pounds, and you're never gonna be able to use any other wheels without a BUNCH of changes.
They were fairly common on Pontiacs in the early sixties, but a nightmare now. Nobody has the adapters necessary to change or balance tires on em.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

The wheels were light cause they didn't have a center. How much heavier than normal was the giant 8 bolt drums and hubs?
(Net weight savings might have been twenty pounds, and you're never gonna be able to use any other wheels without a BUNCH of changes.
They were fairly common on Pontiacs in the early sixties, but a nightmare now. Nobody has the adapters necessary to change or balance tires on em.

Probably better off with a set of black epoxy coated "Steely Dan" aluminum wheels.

 

[HersheysHemi]

Those rumors supposedly have never been confirmed by an actual site of the car, but there were at least five '65 Goats that had every panel on the bodies stamped out of thin gauge steel to make 'em much lighter. They are on record as special factory experimental cars that slipped out the back door and ended up at Royal.
The aluminum version is not so far fetched in my book only because Pontiac was fooling around with aluminum parts way before their other GM counterparts and definitely before Chrysler.

I could be wrong on aluminum. The magazine feature was about 15 years ago and I'm going off memory.
Somewhere I have my Pontiac magazines boxed up.
They had pictures of the car.
He was talking about the metal being so thin it dented incredibly easy and that the sides of the car was full of dents.
The black car in the picture is this car.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

I could be wrong on aluminum. The magazine feature was about 15 years ago and I'm going off memory.
Somewhere I have my Pontiac magazines boxed up.
They had pictures of the car.
He was talking about the metal being so thin it dented incredibly easy and that the sides of the car was full of dents.
The black car in the picture is this car.

View attachment 1706969

Yes. Supposedly Pontiac was unintentionally playing with the gentleman feelings by taking back a couple of prized cars that Pontiac gave him and he was campaigning very successfully. As a gesture of trust and and damage control, Jesse over at Royal Pontiac offered him one of the special 5- or 6 "White" GTO's that were ultra thin gauge steel cars. One of those cars ended up being on Arnie Beswick's stable of cars. Supposedly, the sixth car is a black car and one of the if not the only survivor of the small sextet bunch. Fascinating stuff.
If I were a Pontiac head, I'd be searching for one of those 1965 tin Lizzies.

 

[33 IMP]

Yes. Supposedly Pontiac was unintentionally playing with the gentleman feelings by taking back a couple of prized cars that Pontiac gave him and he was campaigning very successfully. As a gesture of trust and and damage control, Jesse over at Pontiac offered him one of the special 5- or 6 "White" GTO's that were ultra thin gauge steel cars. One of those cars ended up being on Arnie Beswick's stable of cars. Fascinating stuff.
If I were a Pontiac head, I'd be searching for one of those 1965 tin Lizzies.

Wouldn't that be a "thin" lizzie?

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Wouldn't that be a "thin" lizzie?

33 IMP. Wouldn't that be a "thin" lizzie? That's a good comeback. LOL.

 

[rmchrgr]

New 'lightweight' mini starter available. Looks pretty slick. I've had a Denso mini starter for many years and it's bullet proof but this may be worth a look.

Check it out.

 

[rmchrgr]

I could be wrong on aluminum. The magazine feature was about 15 years ago and I'm going off memory.

The original HPP article was from 2004. Lightweight GTO

The body was thin gauge steel as pointed out by fmj, not aluminum. Aluminum front bumper though. Eventually ran a best of 12.23 @ 118. That's a lot of MPH for that ET so it was making decent power. Sounds like it would have been well into the 11s with more modern suspension technology and tires.

BTW, "Jesse" from Royal Bobcat was Dick Jesse, AKA "Mr. Unswitchable".

This thing was WILD. Dude had BIG stones driving this crazy contraption. Nitro burning madness.

 

[dvw]

I'll Have to ask. I've known and raced with Kieth Seymore for years. He's never mentioned the Pontiac.
Keith Seymore is committed to honing his skills and his combo for multiple drag racing classes
Doug

 

[rmchrgr]

I've known and raced with Kieth Seymore for years.

Naturally Mr. Knows Everyone.

Be interesting to hear more details about this Poncho though. I'm sure fmj would love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation. 1 of 6 is pretty special and the way it came to be is a good story.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Naturally Mr. Knows Everyone.

Be interesting to hear more details about this Poncho though. I'm sure fmj would love to be a fly on the wall for that conversation. 1 of 6 is pretty special and the way it came to be is a good story.

The 6ix Ponchos were indeed very special. probably were kept secret from the heads of state over at GM headquartes because of the special adjustments to the panel stamping machines. I obviously don't know how that happened, but by what I am reading in the new second edition of the "We Were The Ramchargers" there was a whole lot of slippery stuff happening on all fronts.
5 of those Goats were presumedly all white. The 6ixth was the last one put together with left over thin gauge panels and was painted black as shown in Hershey's photo.
Ya'll should read up on what Ford was doing with a special limited run of 429 Boss shotgun 'stangs and Oldsmobile with their Hurst olds cars. fascinating and yet expected in such a competitive market.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

Doug. Please bring Mr. Seymore on board or at the very least, be our breaking news correspondent by interviewing him about that quintet of Goats and his one of one black one. Like RMCHRGR said, I'd be a quiet fly even stuck on a fly trap just to hear the details.

 

[fullmetaljacket]

I wonder if this new lightweight starter is any lighter than the Denso unit. I think there isn't much more that could be done to shave it, but I could be wrong. If I am wrong, I'll be on the ordering line so quicker than a quick pick lottery number. LOL.