Trashed rocker assembly?

[kaj750]

While trying to chase down an extremely loud, intermittent valvetrain tick, I found my rocker assembly in the following condition.
I'm no expert, but it looks like one issue is lack of oil, judging by the scuff marks. Not sure if it happened when the engine was built or recent. If current, that could explain the ticking, if the lifters aren't getting enough oil. Is it normal for the wear pattern to be different between the "oil hole" side and the other? I'm assuming the dark stripe on the "back" of the shaft is from oil groves that are probably on the back side of the rockers.

My second find was all the pitting on the shaft. Looks like something has been knocking around in there. I didn't feel any raised edges on any of them.
No clue if the surface on the inside of the rockers is damaged.
All rockers move smoothly.
Pictures posted are rockers in order from front of engines to back, cylinders 2 to 8.
Oil pressure has been fine on OEM gauge. Engine is pretty much stock spec other than a mild cam
I haven't looked at the driver's side yet, but it makes no noise.
Pictures (I'm missing the back of the shaft of cyl 3, but it looked like the others)

 

[kaj750]

10 picture limit lol

 

[Geoff 2]

I doubt that that amount of wear [ minimal ] would cause noise. I would have no hesitation in cointinuing to use those rockers. If there was an oiling problem, the rockers would have seized up long ago.
I would:
- use syn oil
- run some emery paper through the rockers to remove any rough spots
- get some hard chromed shafts

 

[GTX JOHN]

Your pushrod in my opinion are too short.

If you have to adjust the adjuster too far out the
oil grooves in them do not line up properly restricting oil flow.

I like the ball adjusters to be around 1 thread out from the cast
rockers or about .250 to .275.

Just my .02 = For Free

Flame Away!

 

[kaj750]

Your pushrod in my opinion are too short.

If you have to adjust the adjuster too far out the
oil grooves in them do not line up properly restriction oil flow.

I like the ball adjusters to be around 1 thread out from the cast
rockers or about .250 to .275.

Just my .02 = For Free

Flame Away!

I know nothing about ordering push rods.

 

[dodgeboy440]

I doubt that that amount of wear [ minimal ] would cause noise. I would have no hesitation in cointinuing to use those rockers. If there was an oiling problem, the rockers would have seized up long ago.
I would:
- use syn oil
- run some emery paper through the rockers to remove any rough spots
- get some hard chromed shafts

 

[BSB67]

I think they look fine. I think it would be fine to put it back together as is, IMO.

I agree that the push rod length is not ideal. I also prefer spacers verses the springs between the rockers.

Again, for a driver, I don’t think you need to do anything.

 

[padam]

Check the valve end of the rockers for wear. I got a set of later cranes and about half of them were too soft

 

[gkent]

Of course the shafts will be shiny on the bottom side - that's where all the pressure is. Before taking them off did you check to see if any were loose when the lifter is on the base circle? Is it a solid or hydraulic cam? At this point I think you've gone too far, you have to reinstall the rockers, adjust them and fire the motor again. If the noise is still there you have to determine which lifter(s) are the problem. It may be more than that - it could be a worn cam !!

A) buy a decent set of shafts - stock shafts are known to cause issues with those type rockers
B) clean up the insides of those rockers to remove any burrs. DO NOT hone them.
C) pushrod length is not ideal BUT they've lasted this long - I'd reuse them

"Check the valve end of the rockers for wear. I got a set of later cranes and about half of them were too soft"

Very good point. But the few we see look just fine.

 

[PurpleBeeper]

Also, maybe roll the pushrods on a mirror. Sometimes they bend slightly and cause a “lifter tick”

 

[dodgeboy440]

Hi !
FYI

If this was mine I would dissemble both assemblies

CLEAN shafts & rockers !!

Inspect …… inspect …… rockers & cam & lifters / heads best you can for anything that looks like a wear item or out of place .
Look at pushrod tips for wear & replace as needed. And check for straightness…
Also ….
I would definitely replace your shafts witb
New ! Choose a better …. Thicker …. Hard
Chrome Version .
Mancini & others has em !
AND….
Last but not least verifi oil delivery to shafts,
Spinning over the engine without spark plugs should display enough oil volume to verify !
Change oil & filter too !
Use a high quality synthetic 10-30 , 10-40or whatever you prefer .
Have you thought about Friction Modifiers???
STP / LiquiMoly / Hot Shot Secret products?
I use em & they work !

Best of luck with your project!

Mopar2ya!

John

 

[threewood]

Check the valve end of the rockers for wear. I got a set of later cranes and about half of them were too soft

I had the same issue with Crane ductile rockers. Tips were wearing at a fast rate. I got rid of them.

 

[GTX JOHN]

I know nothing about ordering push rods.

Adjustable Pushrod to measure need length is very inexpensive,

I bought a brand new one in the package for $5,00 on this site last
month to have an extra.

Much cheaper than buying new pushrods, especially if they damage the
engine!

 

[kaj750]

I think they look fine. I think it would be fine to put it back together as is, IMO.

I agree that the push rod length is not ideal. I also prefer spacers verses the springs between the rockers.

Again, for a driver, I don’t think you need to do anything.

I think the rocker adjusters were set with too much preload. I have everything back together. I haven't turned the engine over to set adjustments yet... but, out of curiosity, I adjusted all of them (since I don't know which cylinder should have the valves closed) until the pushrods stopped moving up and down, per the instructions that came with the lifters. and NONE of the adjusters are out as far as they were before. Even after the recommended pre-load (030 inch or approx 3/4 turn), they won't be extended anywhere near as far.

Check the valve end of the rockers for wear. I got a set of later cranes and about half of them were too soft

They look great. I can't feel any deformities.

Of course the shafts will be shiny on the bottom side - that's where all the pressure is. Before taking them off did you check to see if any were loose when the lifter is on the base circle? Is it a solid or hydraulic cam? At this point I think you've gone too far, you have to reinstall the rockers, adjust them and fire the motor again. If the noise is still there you have to determine which lifter(s) are the problem. It may be more than that - it could be a worn cam !!

A) buy a decent set of shafts - stock shafts are known to cause issues with those type rockers
B) clean up the insides of those rockers to remove any burrs. DO NOT hone them.
C) pushrod length is not ideal BUT they've lasted this long - I'd reuse them

"Check the valve end of the rockers for wear. I got a set of later cranes and about half of them were too soft"

Very good point. But the few we see look just fine.

None were loose. As mentioned above, I think there was a TON of preload on the old lifters. My preliminary check has NONE of them out nearly as far @ zero lash.
Assuming hydraulic cam since hydraulic lifters.
All lifters have been replaced.
Cam condition is unknown. Looks fine from what I can tell, through the lifter holes, with my boroscope.. But that doesn't really show much. I haven't checked the pan for metal since the ticking started.
The shaft and rockers are one unit. The ends of the shaft are larger diameter, so I can't remove the rockers. If need to replace the entire assembly, both sides.
Both ends of rockers look great.

Also, maybe roll the pushrods on a mirror. Sometimes they bend slightly and cause a “lifter tick”

If they have any bends, I can't tell my looking/rolling.

Hi !
FYI

If this was mine I would dissemble both assemblies

CLEAN shafts & rockers !!

Inspect …… inspect …… rockers & cam & lifters / heads best you can for anything that looks like a wear item or out of place .
Look at pushrod tips for wear & replace as needed. And check for straightness…
Also ….
I would definitely replace your shafts witb
New ! Choose a better …. Thicker …. Hard
Chrome Version .
Mancini & others has em !
AND….
Last but not least verifi oil delivery to shafts,
Spinning over the engine without spark plugs should display enough oil volume to verify !
Change oil & filter too !
Use a high quality synthetic 10-30 , 10-40or whatever you prefer .
Have you thought about Friction Modifiers???
STP / LiquiMoly / Hot Shot Secret products?
I use em & they work !

Best of luck with your project!

Mopar2ya!

John

Cleaned best I could. Inspected. Zero signs of wear or damage anywhere, that I could find.
Shafts and rockets do not separate.
Was using Lucas Hot Rod oil. Won't be again. In fact, that's when this all started.

I had the same issue with Crane ductile rockers. Tips were wearing at a fast rate. I got rid of them.

So far, so good.

Adjustable Pushrod to measure need length is very inexpensive,

I bought a brand new one in the package for $5,00 on this site last
month to have an extra.

Much cheaper than buying new pushrods, especially if they damage the
engine!

If I buy an adjustable rod and find i need a different length, I'd still have to buy new pushrods. And I'd think they wouldn't damage the engine of they are proper length. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post.

 

[gkent]

The shaft and rockers are one unit. The ends of the shaft are larger diameter, so I can't remove the rockers. If need to replace the entire assembly, both sides.

This is bullshit! What do you mean the "ends are larger diameter" ? How do you suppose they got the rockers on ?!?!?

What I "think" you have are pieces of **** stock rockers that have been overtightened to the point they are now oval. Cut the shafts in half, remove the rockers and get a new, decent set of shafts !!

As for adjustment, you can use the attached chart to adjust them. "Zero" lash is determined by spinning the pushrod with your thumb and forefinger as you tighten the adjuster. When it won't spin its at "zero", now tighten 1/4 turn more and tighten the locknut.

 

[Sinitro]

Double check the wear @ the rocker arm where it contacts the valve stem..
Before Crane went bankrupt they distributed multiple lots of defective rockers that were not
hardened properly, and the stem wears through...
I went round & round with their tech staff @ SEMA, they debated about it.
Took out the Cranes, tossed them in the dumpster, installed Harland/Sharp and all has been well for many revs, miles and races...

Just my $0.02...

 

[threewood]

Double check the wear @ the rocker arm where it contacts the valve stem..
Before Crane went bankrupt they distributed multiple lots of defective rockers that were not
hardened properly, and the stem wears through...
I went round & round with their tech staff @ SEMA, they debated about it.
Took out the Cranes, tossed them in the dumpster, installed Harland/Sharp and all has been well for many revs, miles and races...

Just my $0.02...

I bought mine early 2016 and had the wear issues. Tips could easily catch a fingernail. I wasn't running anything wild either. It took 2 or 3 months for them to send me a new set, which I promptly sold. I've been running Hughes rockers ever since.

 

[padam]

I bought mine early 2016 and had the wear issues. Tips could easily catch a fingernail. I wasn't running anything wild either. It took 2 or 3 months for them to send me a new set, which I promptly sold. I've been running Hughes rockers ever since.

FYI, this is just my hillbilly method.

I cleaned the soft ones up with a file, then polished them.

Then heated them cherry red and quenched in water. That made them file hard. (I tried quenching in oil but they didn’t harden.)

That was last spring. Ran them all summer and they seem ok. I will take them off this spring and do a more thorough inspection.

 

[BSB67]

"Zero" lash is determined by spinning the pushrod with your thumb and forefinger as you tighten the adjuster. When it won't spin its at "zero", now tighten 1/4 turn more and tighten the locknut.

Caution here - todays lifter you may not feel any resistance to spinning the pushrod. I prefer to both watch the lifter plunger (factory head) and lightly pull up and down on either the pushrod or rocker while turning the adjuster between your fingers.

 

[gkent]

The Cranes had wear issues back in the mid-seventies. That was the first bad set I'd seen on a buddy's '70 440 RR. It has nothing to do with age, you get a good set or you don't - simple as that! The few the OP has look just fine. Knock of the scare tactics and conspiracy theories !!