Tremec 5 speed conversion in a 1970 Charger

[ckessel]

Was just thinking about an issue I saw several years back. As Wild RT suggested, loosen up the pp bolts and give it a whirl. What I saw from my past was when I was working at a Dodge truck specialty shop down south was an issue with a/m billet input shafts not fitting all the way into the converter. The trans gut could get a converter most of the way on but the last inch. Fussed with it for awhile. Tried a stock shaft, fit no problem The converter was an a/m unit too. Turned out that the shafts didn't get the splines cut correctly. Right count, just not deep enough. So... if you still have issues, pull the clutch stuff off and see if the disc slides over the input shaft. If not, find another disc. I believe its a disc for an M22 GM application, 26 spline, so you might be able to find a test unit to try out. All this may fall into the "impossible" or "this is new and has never happened" category. I've seen this happen on oe manufactures, Detroit/Aisian/European, and aftermarket manufactures. NO COMPANY is immune from this. It can always be traced down to a specific production run where some issue happened but was not caught.

 

[moparedtn]

Gents, I believe Greg most recently posted that part of his latest attempt included loosening the PP bolts...

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Gents, I believe Greg most recently posted that part of his latest attempt included loosening the PP bolts...

Missed that.. Thanks..
FWIW I've never had great luck with plastic alignment tools... I would be trying to track down a spare input shaft with the correct line & the correct pilot diameter... Probably GM as previously mentioned but Ford also used a 26 spline clutch disc with a 1.125 shaft...

 

[Kern Dog]

I've always heard the third times the charm so I'll post this a third time...
Loosen the bolts that attach the pressure plate so the disc can move.... That way the input shaft acts as the alignment tool... Assuming the trans slides in then tighten the bolts.....

See post # 455.

 

[watermelon]

youll get it Kern. i think the tolerances are just tight for each parameter.


watermelon

 

[Kern Dog]

My buddy came by. He remembered that he also had trouble getting the transmission to slide into position. He thought the problem wasn't with the pilot bearing but with the input shaft bearing collar. I spritzed it with White Lithium grease and he shook the trans while I turned each of the 4 mounting bolts 1/2 turn at a time. They went in with maybe 10-15 lbs of torque so I know that I wasn't crushing anything. After several criss cross and circular patterns, the transmission was seated.

After it was seated, I pulled each bolt out one at a time to add a flat and a lock washer.
The trans crossmember is not super beefy but once everything is tightened up, it seems fine.

 

[dadsbee]

I knew a girl like that ONCE...

 

[Kern Dog]

I can only guess that the reason for the tight fitment was that everything is new and tight and the tolerances are much closer than an old 833 4 speed. I was so frustrated, I considered pulling the transmission back out and taking a flapper disc to the input shaft edge. I thought that a greater bevel may aid in getting the damn thing to slide into place. Paul and his son showed up and helped me regain my sanity.
Paul's advice about the tight bearing collar fitment started to make sense as I let it sink in. When on the trans jack, the bell did fit to the trans but it did not in any way just slide right on. I had to tap it with the rubber mallet to get it on. It came off much easier for some reason. When trying to install the trans, I didn't have proper leverage to push the transmission forward. I could be wrong but I suspect that if the trans is not in perfect up-down-side-side alignment, the damn thing just will not go into place. This may be more related to the bearing collar than the pilot bearing. Who the hell knows. It is in and I can move on to the rest of the project.

 

[Kern Dog]

Did ya leave in gear and turn the output shaft?

I have no yoke to turn the output shaft. I thought about this a few times because I have spare 904 and 727 yokes but certainly nothing to fit this Tremec.
Loosening the pressure plate sounded like a sure-fire fix but as stated, it just pushed the hydraulic bearing further to the rear when the clutch fingers expanded. That made forward movement of the trans now under spring pressure as well as the interference fit.
I wondered about "Tolerance stackup", a term that I have heard from Mopar Action magazine's Rick Ehrenberg. If the clutch was off center by a couple thousands by one direction and the bearing collar was off in the other direction, maybe the input shaft wasn't aligning properly, I don't know. If the car starts and moves without hard shifting or bearing noises, I'll be dang happy.

 

[1 Wild R/T]

Whatever minor misalignment that may exist between the clutch disc/pilot bearing will self correct as soon as you release the clutch the first time.... Get the hydraulics bled & step on the pedal... Install driveshaft & go grab some gears...

 

[eldubb440]

sometimes all you gotta do is spit on it

 

[Kern Dog]

Thank you, Randy
Next up is to button up everything under the car except for the drive shaft. I have to wait for that. I'll have the Wife help me bleed the clutch master cylinder.
It looks to be warm enough to paint this week. I have to prime, paint and clear the console top plates. Plenty of little tasks to do.

 

[Kern Dog]

Whatever minor misalignment that may exist between the clutch disc/pilot bearing will self correct as soon as you release the clutch the first time.... Get the hydraulics bled & step on the pedal... Install driveshaft & go grab some gears...

The instructions show a 500-1000 mile break in. What the heck??? A thousand miles ? I drove the car less than that ALL of last year. I didn't plan to side-step the clutch out of the shop but 1000 miles of easy driving ?

 

[1 Wild R/T]

I think/hope they are talking about an oil change... I'd be easy on the clutch for maybe a dozen starts to burnish in the disc.. Then I'd be having some fun....

Okay, I went to their website & read the manual...

"Drive conservatively for the first 500-1000 miles for transmission break-in."

I worked as a dealer tech & a factory troubleshooter... Never seen a customer who cared about performance baby their trans for a thousand miles.... Fact is in my experience if you baby stuff it winds up not running as well as the car that got driven a little... Not hammered or beat but use it some...

 

[Kern Dog]

I am not abusive to my cars. I've never blown up a transmission or a U-joint. I've had stuff wear out, sure but nothing has been blasted apart from abuse. 95% of the time, I cruise this car without dipping into the secondaries. These tires are wide but do spin fairly easily. I don't expect the transmission to see the same level of abuse as it would if I had slicks. I'm more interested in road course type stuff anyway.

 

[5.7 hemi]

That’s why you get a ceramic clutch disc, then you can slide step the clutch out the driveway or shop.

 

[moparedtn]

I'm very happy you got this figured out, Greg.
Being "ignert" on such things, I sometimes wonder why they don't sort of bevel the opening in
the bell to sort of help guide the bearing retainer home?
You're soon to have state of the art musclecar driving experiences with this whole thing and I'm envious!
Heck, I'd just like to own a stock clutch that feels and acts like they did back then....
only problem is, nobody makes those anymore.

 

[Kern Dog]

From what I have read, the Tremec shifts far better than any classic transmission and the hydraulic clutch feels like a new car. The throws are super short, I can tell that already.
I didn't expect to have to repaint the oil pan but take a look. The wood block has a rubber disc above it that I thought would protect the pan from damage but all the jacking and wiggling made the oil pan flex and the paint cracked and flaked off in several places.

I will need to remove the pan to knock the depression out of it then sand and paint it yet again. It doesn't bother me too much because even with the "trick" combination windage tray/ gasket, I had leaks. You can see oil seeping out from the tray/gasket

All the oil streaks on the right header make me think that oil was leaking from the pan and getting blown to the right by turbulence off of the converter. I did not have a torque converter shield on the transmission.
There were hardly any oil spots on the left header. Maybe some of the right header oil stains were from oil leaking from the RH valve cover. The engine didn't leak a drop at idle when sitting. I've let it sit and run while I cleaned the shop and it is fine. I only get leaks when out driving, building oil pressure and putting a load on the engine. I wish that I were able to actually see a leak when it happens. THAT is the evidence that I want to see so I can fix it.

 

[440+6]

Glad you got that transmission in!

 

[747mopar]

Glad to hear you got it in there. If you've never ran a manual with a brand new clutch keep in mind the clutch will dramatically improve as it breaks in. Enjoy

I had the same problem you did installing mine, I suspected the same thing... alignment tool. I'm a bit late but maybe it will help in the future? The weight of the disc is enough to make the tool sag, you have to hold up on it as you tighten the pressure plate, after doing that it slid right in. I didn't have a lift yet when I did mine, I installed it by myself with the transmission on my chest... Man was that a heavy transmission!