Trick Flow 240 vs Stealth heads

[Sweet5ltr]

Engine masters did a comparison test of four bbm heads, 906 (or 452) stealth, rpm and TF 240. Sorry, don't have access right now so I can't tell you which episode. If memory serves, (it might not, lol) each improved head made about twenty horses more than the previous. I think they saw 40hp more with the 240s over the stealth.

Fully, CNC ported cylinder head, flowing north of 320cfm @ .600 lift. Big power is easy, tons of potential, and with power gains even at lower lifts. Comparatively, a cylinder head like the Performer RPM is flowing 280 - 290 CFM @ .600 lift, and we can expect an untouched stealth to be 20-30 CFM behind the Performer RPM.

Of course, with porting, both the Stealth and Edelbrock Performer RPM can produce similar flow figures to the OOTB Trick Flow heads. Companies like Hughes don't help themselves, when they charge $1,900+ for CNC porting, and a new set of Trick Flow heads is what, around $2,000? Trick Flow to me is the only way to go anymore if you're looking for maximum power.

 

[33 IMP]

Fully, CNC ported cylinder head, flowing north of 320cfm @ .600 lift. Big power is easy, tons of potential, and with power gains even at lower lifts. Comparatively, a cylinder head like the Performer RPM is flowing 280 - 290 CFM @ .600 lift, and we can expect an untouched stealth to be 20-30 CFM behind the Performer RPM.

Of course, with porting, both the Stealth and Edelbrock Performer RPM can produce similar flow figures to the OOTB Trick Flow heads. Companies like Hughes don't help themselves, when they charge $1,900+ for CNC porting, and a new set of Trick Flow heads is what, around $2,000? Trick Flow to me is the only way to go anymore if you're looking for maximum power.

Agree. I understand, you have to make payments on a 5 axis cnc machine. But wouldn't it be better to do four sets of heads for $500, than one set at $2000, or, no sets at all? Once you have a good program a half smart chimp can feed the machine, you don't have to pay fifty or a hundred per hour for a talented porter. More good heads at more of a good price, more good reputation, more business. Win,win,win.

 

[Mopar Hunter]

Where are the Stealth heads made? Are the Trick Flow heads still made in America?

 

[diesel_lv]

Agree. I understand, you have to make payments on a 5 axis cnc machine. But wouldn't it be better to do four sets of heads for $500, than one set at $2000, or, no sets at all? Once you have a good program a half smart chimp can feed the machine, you don't have to pay fifty or a hundred per hour for a talented porter. More good heads at more of a good price, more good reputation, more business. Win,win,win.

I had the same logic w a tattoo artist in the 80's, you can make a little money at 2 in the afternoon on a Tuesday or you can make no money. But he would rather try to charge full busy hour prices n be turned down than make a bit less but be making some money. Some is better than none.

 

[padam]

Agree. I understand, you have to make payments on a 5 axis cnc machine. But wouldn't it be better to do four sets of heads for $500, than one set at $2000, or, no sets at all? Once you have a good program a half smart chimp can feed the machine, you don't have to pay fifty or a hundred per hour for a talented porter. More good heads at more of a good price, more good reputation, more business. Win,win,win.

You would rather do 4 times the work for the same money?

 

[hunt2elk]

Engine masters did a comparison test of four bbm heads, 906 (or 452) stealth, rpm and TF 240. Sorry, don't have access right now so I can't tell you which episode. If memory serves, (it might not, lol) each improved head made about twenty horses more than the previous. I think they saw 40hp more with the 240s over the stealth.

Dwayne mentioned that episode to me as well. He thought I may see a 40 hp increase with just a head swap, nothing else. That was the deciding factor for me. I did order a set of Trick Flows, they showed up last week.

 

[rumblefish360]

One thing I would like to say in order to possibly help out my fellow Mopar enthusiasts, Possibly someone can benefit and I hope you do, Performance with the TF240 heads picked up when I smoothened out the ribs from the cnc porting, the sf600 was steady as a rock after doing that, flow picked up by about 5cfm. Prior to the turbulence was quit a bit and all over the place. I seen debates on this and theory might say otherwise. In practice it's different. great Builders such as Dwayne, Bruce Toth, Larry Smith, IQ for example that port heads don't put ribs back, Pro Stock. Super Stock Pro mods etc.. do not have these. They are there due to keeping costs down to deliver product to end user Yes I roughed up the intake side and polished the exhaust. It helped enough to mention. Hope it helps y'all out.

What headers/size are you running?
What’s your basic rpm range with that cam?

 

[Challenger340]

IMO, everything else equal, any hp gains TF Vrs Stealth should be proportional to the "average" flow increases the Engine can utilize ?
My best guess from your info might be 25-30 hp peak with average hp gains obviously lower.
IMO, when making a comparison such as this it's important to remember how much 'time' is spent along the Lift curve to peak Lift ? Or "rate" of valve opening in relation to how fast the low pressure is transmitted up the port relative to CC volumes.... in this case a FT Lobe where IMO the Stealth smaller CC volume just may not fall too far behind relative to the TF until mid-higher lifts ?
Just say'in.... I think the TF would show far greater gains over the Stealth with a roller lobe ?

Interesting discussion about CNC ?
However, and IMO, lack of noteworthy discussion around the huge gains that can be seen without CNC anything on both Stealth and Eddy's with relatively simple/minor bowl/seat work during prep for service that is cheap to perform ?
Again, we rarely see 265'ish cfm/.600 ootb on Stealth with the eddy's being only marginally better ..... with then BOTH Heads showing significant worthwhile gains under simple rework closer to 280'ish/.600" ?

 

[33 IMP]

You would rather do 4 times the work for the same money?

Why not do one head for $4000 ? Half the work for twice the money.
(Cause you would have NO work.)
If you were a customer, would you give your job to the guy that charges $500, or $2000 ?
If you charge $500, you might have ten times as many heads to port than the guy that charges $2000. More jobs=more money.
I have never had professionally hand ported heads, they were unnecessary for a bracket car, and expensive. If someone offered a serious discount for a cnc head, I'd do it.

 

[hunt2elk]

Interesting discussion about CNC ?
However, and IMO, lack of noteworthy discussion around the huge gains that can be seen without CNC anything on both Stealth and Eddy's with relatively simple/minor bowl/seat work during prep for service that is cheap to perform ?
Again, we rarely see 265'ish cfm/.600 ootb on Stealth with the eddy's being only marginally better ..... with then BOTH Heads showing significant worthwhile gains under simple rework closer to 280'ish/.600" ?

When I was talking to Dwayne Porter about it, he gets 650 to hand port Stealths to about 280 cfm. But because mine are used, they would have to be cleaned up as well, adding 3-350. Plus I would have had shipping both ways to Vermont and back. So I would have had maybe $1200 into mine. Another option was to send them to someone who cnc ports them to 320 cfm. I honestly didn't even check the price on that.
We just figured I would probably be better off buying new TF's and selling my Stealths. If I do decide to go the 512 route or a bigger cam, the TF's will help even more.

 

[Bee1971]

Season 6 episode 16 called “The wedge Head Shootout!!”

They were running a hydraulic roller.. 236/241@ .050 540ish lift.


906's = 514 tq @3700 464 hp @5600
Stealths = 519 tq @3600 481 hp @5600
Eddies = 534 tq @4000 498 hp @5500
TF 240's = 538 tq @4200 522 hp @5600

 

[Mopar Hunter]

Dwayne mentioned that episode to me as well. He thought I may see a 40 hp increase with just a head swap, nothing else. That was the deciding factor for me. I did order a set of Trick Flows, they showed up last week.

When and where did you order the Trick Flows heads?

 

[68 HEMI GTS]

For a little over a grand MCH use to cnc your heads and do a valve job. I thought that was a deal. Agree you have to focus on moving some volume through the cnc machine. It’s not labor intensive. Load the head, zero it and run the program. I use to run the 5 axis at livernois. I could do probably 3 sets of heads a day in it and only probably had an hour Total in messing with the machine for set up. Now if you were swapping brands of heads very set then it becomes more involved.

 

[rumblefish360]

They were running a hydraulic roller.. 236/241@ .050 540ish lift.


906's = 514 tq @3700 464 hp @5600
Stealths = 519 tq @3600 481 hp @5600
Eddies = 534 tq @4000 498 hp @5500
TF 240's = 538 tq @4200 522 hp @5600

Now you can probably add more power since his mill is a bit bigger and badder.

 

[Gunner1]

Just bought a set of Stealth CNC heads. In stock with spring/lock/retainer upgrade and shipping. 2600 otd. Check this one out
To Port or Not to Port - Stealth Fighter - Mopar Muscle Magazine

 

[hunt2elk]

When and where did you order the Trick Flows heads?

440 Source is the only place I could find who had them in stock. Ordered them 10 days or so ago and got them a few days later. They had 42 left in stock after selling me a set.

 

[m79ded]

What headers/size are you running?
What’s your basic rpm range with that cam?

1 7/8 headers pulls hard from 3000 to 6200

 

[Challenger340]

When I was talking to Dwayne Porter about it, he gets 650 to hand port Stealths to about 280 cfm. But because mine are used, they would have to be cleaned up as well, adding 3-350. Plus I would have had shipping both ways to Vermont and back. So I would have had maybe $1200 into mine. Another option was to send them to someone who cnc ports them to 320 cfm. I honestly didn't even check the price on that.
We just figured I would probably be better off buying new TF's and selling my Stealths. If I do decide to go the 512 route or a bigger cam, the TF's will help even more.

Agreed, If you go the 512 route the Stealth's are IMO, out of their league in any reworked incarnation.

Being up in Canada we used to charge $1,000 CAD(about $750 USD) for what we called a "Street Port" on new OOTB Stealth's.... Ported all the way through/pushrod pinch etc and with redone Seat Angles
and we'd typically see 295-300 cfm @ .600" Lift from our hand job, our SF750 Bench and Dwayne's being extremely close numbers-wise from what I've seen ?

 

[diesel_lv]

So is all of this talk for "racing", "dyno shootouts", or just street driving. My truck has 35's, my jet boat has a turbo, I know I have a small Pe%!$

 

[rumblefish360]

OK, that was weird!