Valve springs.

[Unkle Krusty]

While removing the valves from the LH head today, I noticed some springs were shorter than others.
With them all removed, 8 are 2 inches, and 8 are 1 13/16. I checked the new set ( fancy looking ) and they are all 2 inch. I think it was the intake that were shorter. I am assuming this was from the factory in 1977. Anyone else noticed this? 318 stock motor, never apart to my knowledge before I bought it, and no signs of ever being apart.

 

[dvw]

Does this engine have valve spring rotaters on the exhaust valves? They would be thicker. If not it’s time for springs.
Doug

 

[Unkle Krusty]

Nothing in the form of rotators found so far. But I will have another good look tomorrow. I have a new cam, lifters and springs to put in.

 

[pnora]

8 long and 8 short tells me there are rotaters on the exhaust valve. Very common. Do not mix them up. The intakes will take the longer springs and they will have a thin retainer. The exhaust will take the shorter springs and the retainers are thicker which allow the valve to rotate. Here is a Rock auto showing the difference. Exhaust on the left and intake on the right.

 

[pnora]

While removing the valves from the LH head today, I noticed some springs were shorter than others.
With them all removed, 8 are 2 inches, and 8 are 1 13/16. I checked the new set ( fancy looking ) and they are all 2 inch. I think it was the intake that were shorter. I am assuming this was from the factory in 1977. Anyone else noticed this? 318 stock motor, never apart to my knowledge before I bought it, and no signs of ever being apart.

Do not use those springs with the exhaust rotator. You will pop a face off the stem. You also should be seeing a difference on the keeper grooves.

 

[Unkle Krusty]

K. Will check the keepers tomorrow. They all looked the same when I took them off. But then I was not looking for any difference. Are exhaust rotators something they would use stock in 77?

 

[pnora]

K. Will check the keepers tomorrow. They all looked the same when I took them off. But then I was not looking for any difference. Are exhaust rotators something they would use stock in 77?

Yes they were used mostly in trucks and vans. Post some pics on what you have.

 

[Geoff 2]

Very often on high mileage & highly loaded the engines, the exh springs will be shorter, especially the two centre cyls because they get tremendous heat from the siamesed exh ports. Found this quite common on 383/440s.

 

[Unkle Krusty]

So far. 8 two inch springs, 8 shorter springs. The end caps for the short springs are longer. With the caps they are all the same length. The head end is all the same. Comp. Cams has a number to call, but I was on hold for too long. Will try again. I suspect I need the thinner caps, and will use all 2 inch springs. I will also ask them about rotating lifters. I read the instructions at lunch today.
I need to add. I have a new cam, lifters, springs and carb. Gaskets too. Pieces are everywhere. Cam gear and chain.
Don’t forget the electric fan on the couch.

Stopped by Georges today. Mark is working on an Austin Healey. What a piece of junk.

For Ozzy Geoff. Watched a video of beer belly Ozzy, assembling a 318. He had all new bits for everything. Hoping to get 400hp for his dads Ute.

 

[pnora]

So far. 8 two inch springs, 8 shorter springs. The end caps for the short springs are longer. With the caps they are all the same length. The head end is all the same. Comp. Cams has a number to call, but I was on hold for too long. Will try again. I suspect I need the thinner caps, and will use all 2 inch springs. I will also ask them about rotating lifters. I read the instructions at lunch today.
I need to add. I have a new cam, lifters, springs and carb. Gaskets too. Pieces are everywhere. Cam gear and chain.
Don’t forget the electric fan on the couch.

Stopped by Georges today. Mark is working on an Austin Healey. What a piece of junk.

For Ozzy Geoff. Watched a video of beer belly Ozzy, assembling a 318. He had all new bits for everything. Hoping to get 400hp for his dads Ute.

The thicker retainers are rotators. So yes you will need new retainers to use those new springs. I would get all 16 new retainers and locks.

 

[Unkle Krusty]

I sent Edelbrock an email. Told them I am not good at sitting on hold. Asked if there was another way of getting tech help. So far learning more from you guys. Fortunately my engine is in good condition. Tomorrow I will mess with the valve seats.
This is the first time I have had a 318 apart, hence the questions. But I am learning lots.
The pic at left, shows my Kawasaki and myself at the Arctic Ocean. The bike got there on the back of my camper van. The van with the 318. We went to Yellowstone in 024. New Mexico this year. After I get it back together.

By locks, do you mean the two small keepers. Retainers.?

 

[pnora]

I sent Edelbrock an email. Told them I am not good at sitting on hold. Asked if there was another way of getting tech help. So far learning more from you guys. Fortunately my engine is in good condition. Tomorrow I will mess with the valve seats.
This is the first time I have had a 318 apart, hence the questions. But I am learning lots.
The pic at left, shows my Kawasaki and myself at the Arctic Ocean. The bike got there on the back of my camper van. The van with the 318. We went to Yellowstone in 024. New Mexico this year. After I get it back together.

By locks, do you mean the two small keepers. Retainers.?

No. Retainers go on top of the spring and the locks/keepers are what holds the valve to the retainer. You want to be sure the retainers are mated to the locks/keepers as there are different degrees of fitment and they have to be correct. Example a 7 degree lock/keeper needs a 7 degree retainer.

 

[dvw]

What you call "end caps" are the valve spring retainers. The 2 small items are locks or keepers. The thicker "rotater style" retainers you have will not work with your new springs. Retainers, locks, valves, and springs have to fit each other. No mix and match. If this is a stock cam you could purchase 8 stock retainers. If it's a better than stock cam? There are performance retainers and locks. The locks have to fit the angle of the retainer. They also have to have the correct number of grooves to fit the valve stem. Beware that some applications have different lock grooves on the exhaust vs intake valves. The retainer has to fit snugly inside the spring. Once you have all the correct parts? Spring installed height needs to be measured. Each valve, retainer, and locks should be assembled with a light hand compressable checking spring. Then with a caliper measure the distance between the cylinder head spring mounting surface and the underside of the retainer. The springs will have a desired height. Shims are available in .015", .030", .060". They can be stacked if needed.Use shims to get as close as possible to the desired height. Then lube the stem, install the valve seal, correct shim if needed, spring, retainer, and locks.
Doug

 

[Unkle Krusty]

Thanks Doug and others.
I will be using an Edelbrock Performa cam, that should work better than stock. All the parts were suggested by Edelbrock.
This was a good running low mileage engine. I will use the stock valves and buy 8 of the retainers. All the locks and valves and seats are in good condition. But I will give them a close inspection later. Waiting for it to warm up a bit.
I am familiar with valves and seats, but not familiar with the 318. Was running 110hp per litre back in 74. Pushrod engine, but a bike
All I want with the camper van, is a bit more power, to keep up with the dashing mob on the highways.

 

[Unkle Krusty]

Did some valve grinding today. Did a liquid test on the worst exhaust valve. Slight leakage with finger pressure on the valve. So I have a good idea of what is required for sealing.
Seat width is good, and valve seats in the heads are good.
Still have not solved the mystery of rotating parts, within the valve assembly. Was hoping the tech help could clarify.
Next week.