Well, THAT scared me pretty good...

[moparedtn]

I'd find out pan capacity. If it's large enough ? Put in the proper amount of oil in put d-stick in see where its on the stick. Measure where oil on the stick is to full. Cut the d-stick tube by that amount, assuming its reading low oil.

That's what I'm trying to do here, Fran...

 

[Fran Blacker]

That's what I'm trying to do here, Fran...

Couldn't help with the pan capacity of your pan. I'd want a 5 qt. plus 1 for the filter, for times of spirited acceleration events.

 

[moparedtn]

Thought I had the 187, but don’t. If it helps, I have both 402 & 695 pans. The 402 holds the mentioned 4+1 qts. Not sure on the 695, as I never used it. They are not similar in appearance to your 699, in that there is no recessed area for sway bar clearance as depicted in your photo. However, with that being said, the 402 is original for my 69 383 (believed also for 440, 426 & later 400). The 695 was supposedly a NOS for 383/440 obtained in 1973. If needed, I will send u photos & sump measurements...and also those of the original dipstick & tube.....Jim

According to 440Source, the 187 and 699 pans are identical.
The 402 is the one found on the hi-po big blocks of the late 60's and the street hemi pans are similar with a bit more capacity.
Of course, no mention of any capacities on their info page on pans:
http://440source.com/oilpans.htm

They make a repro pan that mimicks the 187/699 pan that is deeper and holds, according to them, 6 quarts.
No idea if that includes filter or not? Would one infer from that that the 187/599 holds 5 by comparison? I have no idea....

Ok, officially I'm still asking:
1. How much oil does a 440 with a 669/187 pan take to be full including filter?
2. Is 80psi too much oil pressure? (Does it appear I shouldn't have used 20W50, in other words?)
3. Does overfilling cause too much oil pressure?

I'm inclined at this moment to drain the thing and put back 5 quarts....

 

[moparedtn]

Couldn't help with the pan capacity of your pan. I'd want a 5 qt. plus 1 for the filter, for times of spirited acceleration events.

But is that the correct amount for this engine/pan?

 

[Fran Blacker]

Was looking 440 source also. Lot of mumbo jumbo but no capacity info. Same with Schumacher pan schematics, didn't list an hp bb pan. Holiday weekend so add a new post to this thread Tues. My bet your pan is 4 qt. plus 1 for the filter. Ok in 80/90 degree weather but 70's little MO. 80psi hot?, doesn't hurt engine but oil pump drive might snap!

 

[moparedtn]

I think I found something.... sort of?
Website says the 1972 c-body 400 engine took 5 quarts with filter change - wait, "400 engine"?
I'm really grasping here, but a 400 was the 383 pretty much, right? No way they'd use different pans for the different b-engines in the c-bodies, would they? That would mean the 699 pan, right?

EDIT:
Ok, since there's apparently no friggin reference online to go by, the plan is to drain the thing, then take away one quart and refill right back.
Heck with it...

 

[moparedtn]

Went digging through my old books in the garage and EUREKA!

Good enough for me. Off to the garage....

 

[Cranky]

Throw in 5 quarts after draning and then fire it up. Let it sit for for a bit then check the level and then see what you have.....

 

[moparedtn]

Ok, I managed to put the genie back in the bottle - well, 1 quart of it anyways.

I had bought a new drain pan container thingy just for the occasion so as to minimize contamination,
so I pulled the plug (front of car elevated to aid drainage) and let it drain until it was a very slow drip.
I did not disturb the filter.
Once I got all it had to offer, I chucked up an empty quart container from the trash and funneled up to it.
Filled that (gee, the oil isn't nearly as pretty as it was when it was put in!), then headed to the fill on the
engine valve cover. The rest went in the car, pretty near every drop.
I let the car down off the jack, bounced on the front a few times to settle it down, let it sit for 5 minutes for
all the oil to get to the pan, then pulled the dipstick.
The oil now comes up to the last "D" in "ADD".

Ok, in addition to all my other questions, I need to ask someone a favor here:
Pull your dipstick and measure it from the little flange seat that stops it in the tube up top down to the very tip
at the other end, please?
I think we're about to find something out here.

 

[Fran Blacker]

Sorry Ed no wedge here.

 

[moparedtn]

Sorry Ed no wedge here.

I'm still jealous BTW.

I can't believe I forgot I had all those old manuals in the shop. A friggin Chiltons (ugh!) saves the day.
The one I really miss having was my old MOTOR manual from the 60's. That one was awesome.
Somebody borrowed it years ago and...

 

[69B7RR]

Ok, I managed to put the genie back in the bottle - well, 1 quart of it anyways.

I had bought a new drain pan container thingy just for the occasion so as to minimize contamination,
so I pulled the plug (front of car elevated to aid drainage) and let it drain until it was a very slow drip.
I did not disturb the filter.
Once I got all it had to offer, I chucked up an empty quart container from the trash and funneled up to it.
Filled that (gee, the oil isn't nearly as pretty as it was when it was put in!), then headed to the fill on the
engine valve cover. The rest went in the car, pretty near every drop.
I let the car down off the jack, bounced on the front a few times to settle it down, let it sit for 5 minutes for
all the oil to get to the pan, then pulled the dipstick.
The oil now comes up to the last "D" in "ADD".

Ok, in addition to all my other questions, I need to ask someone a favor here:
Pull your dipstick and measure it from the little flange seat that stops it in the tube up top down to the very tip
at the other end, please?
I think we're about to find something out here.

 

[69B7RR]

If this is what your needing it’s 21 3/4”s.......however, mine is original to a 383, unknown if the same as a 440....

 

[moparedtn]

If this is what your needing it’s 21 3/4”s.......however, mine is original to a 383, unknown if the same as a 440....
View attachment 647555

Thanks!
Yep, that's what I'm after - and that's making me nervous again.
The one I have, which is obviously an aftermarket one of some sort and chrome, is the same length as yours is.
Now I'm back to wondering...

 

[Fran Blacker]

You've got 4qts in a 4qt pan. wrong d-stick, so what, shorten d-stick tube so your d-stick reads full. If you change pans it doesn't matter, d-stick and tube are matched.

 

[moparedtn]

You've got 4qts in a 4qt pan. wrong d-stick, so what, shorten d-stick tube so your d-stick reads full. If you change pans it doesn't matter, d-stick and tube are matched.

Yep, total of 5 in there with filter. Stick appears to be the correct length.
That leaves one thing. Tubing cutter time!
*chop*

Sucker reads dead perfect FULL now.

 

[khryslerkid]

Ok, in addition to all my other questions, I need to ask someone a favor here:
Pull your dipstick and measure it from the little flange seat that stops it in the tube up top down to the very tip
at the other end, please?
I think we're about to find something out here.

My aftermarket and the one in my 361 measures 22 1/2" from the grommet to the tip. But the marks are different between the two when side by side.

This drove me crazy too when I bought my pan from 440 Source. Bought the 121-1001 They don't say what the capacity is and it wasn't the pan that they pictured. It's too close to my center link, not rubbing but it's going to get changed in the future.

The only way I could tell what it held was to put four quarts in it. Check the dip stick. It was on the full mark. Started the engine, waited a few min, it showed a quart low. Added one more quart for the filter. So it ended up being a 4+1

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/oil-pan-woes.96530/

As far as useing 20w50w, I was showing 70 to 80lbs at full engine temp any rpm over 2k rpm and over that at 3k rpm. Had me worried about having too much pressure and breaking off the dizzy shaft or worse. Read a couple of threads on here about "too much oil pressure" and it's kind of split down the middle about pressure verses volume. I think that volume is better than pressure so I drained out the 20w50w and replaced it with 10w30w. I do have better flow to the rockers now and the pressure isn't so extreme.

 

[moparedtn]

My aftermarket and the one in my 361 measures 22 1/2" from the grommet to the tip. But the marks are different between the two when side by side.

This drove me crazy too when I bought my pan from 440 Source. Bought the 121-1001 They don't say what the capacity is and it wasn't the pan that they pictured. It's too close to my center link, not rubbing but it's going to get changed in the future.

The only way I could tell what it held was to put four quarts in it. Check the dip stick. It was on the full mark. Started the engine, waited a few min, it showed a quart low. Added one more quart for the filter. So it ended up being a 4+1

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/oil-pan-woes.96530/

As far as useing 20w50w, I was showing 70 to 80lbs at full engine temp any rpm over 2k rpm and over that at 3k rpm. Had me worried about having too much pressure and breaking off the dizzy shaft or worse. Read a couple of threads on here about "too much oil pressure" and it's kind of split down the middle about pressure verses volume. I think that volume is better than pressure so I drained out the 20w50w and replaced it with 10w30w. I do have better flow to the rockers now and the pressure isn't so extreme.

Thanks, KK as always. Another verification of the 4+1, roger that.
It's still cracking me up that I just went out to the car and cut the dipstick tube to make the stick read full.
Hey, at least when I'm gone, the next caretaker won't have to guess, right?

Yeah, the pressure is kinda scary. Makes me worry about seals and such, especially a certain rear main that could ruin my purty clutch.
It's obvious the engine rebuilder on this one went with some sort of high pressure pump.
OTOH, I've had more than one worn out old ride that couldn't muster much more than 30 psi with revs...and they lived just fine.

Problem is, I bought (12) quarts of this Valvoline 20W50, enough for another oil change after this one.
Oh well. Let's see what happens.

 

[khryslerkid]

Problem is, I bought (12) quarts of this Valvoline 20W50, enough for another oil change after this one.

I ran the 20w50w for 15 min. Drained it out. ($10 a quart). Then another $10 a quart for 10w30w.

Watch the cold cranking with the 80psi.

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/high-oil-pressure.123351/#post-910578156

 

[69B7RR]

Thanks!
Yep, that's what I'm after - and that's making me nervous again.
The one I have, which is obviously an aftermarket one of some sort and chrome, is the same length as yours is.
Now I'm back to wondering...

Going back through your posts, the problem surfaced upon hard acceleration & descending/stopping on a significant downgrade. No significant leaks & doesn’t burn oil. You seem like a guy that takes care of his stuff & wouldn’t be running it low on oil, whether it’s a 4 or 5 qt pan. The possibility of having a high volume pump with low capacity pan was previously mentioned. I’m nowhere near any kind of expert on this stuff, but could it be related to your pickup. You said your 440 is an early 70’s. The 699 pan is used to convert a 440 into a A-body to provide for suspension clearance issues. As previously mentioned my 402 pan does not have the recessed area as the 699 in your photos. With the different pan configurations is a different pickup required to seat at the proper level in the sump.....Jim