Well, THAT scared me pretty good...

[moparedtn]

Going back through your posts, the problem surfaced upon hard acceleration & descending/stopping on a significant downgrade. No significant leaks & doesn’t burn oil. You seem like a guy that takes care of his stuff & wouldn’t be running it low on oil, whether it’s a 4 or 5 qt pan. The possibility of having a high volume pump with low capacity pan was previously mentioned. I’m nowhere near any kind of expert on this stuff, but could it be related to your pickup. You said your 440 is an early 70’s. The 699 pan is used to convert a 440 into a A-body to provide for suspension clearance issues. As previously mentioned my 402 pan does not have the recessed area as the 699 in your photos. With the different pan configurations is a different pickup required to seat at the proper level in the sump.....Jim

Could very well have been, Jim. That initial issue that occurred that day has proved to have been an isolated case and probably was due to
low oil level so once I added more, it hasn't occurred again - but then, it never occurred before that day, either.
I'm a gauge watcher by nature, I'd have seen trouble if it had. Since I added some oil and the event never reoccurred, I chalked it up to low oil level.

It should be noted here that my own driveway (well, it's over a 1/4 mile long, I should call it a road I suppose) is even steeper than that street in town
where the problem first became evident and I've never experienced an issue either going up it or down, always in first gear/higher RPM.

From what I can garner from all the information on the 440Source site, with all the "stock" depth pans, whether my 699 (which is the correct stock pan for
this engine) the 187 or even your 402, there's two pickups - one with a curved tube to clear internal baffles and a straight tube one for those pans without
baffles.
The above pertains to stock 3/8" diameter pickups, of course.
Given all that, I wish I could tell you what pickup is in this engine, but I've not had the pan off it since it arrived.
Further, the pan is quite battered, lending thought to perhaps even the pickup being bent as well. The sump part of the pan has certainly been pushed up
a small amount, so it no doubt got closer to the pickup.

Thing is, I'm having a BLAST playing with all this stuff again, I really am.
Considering how many times in the last half dozen years I've been told by docs to "get my affairs in order", to just be here still to
mess with cars one more time is a blessing I can't find words to describe.
Heck, I'm still cracking up about what I did just last night to it. Drain it, put the genie back in the bottle (take out one quart volume
by pouring out of a BIG outlet on the drain pan into the little bitty neck of an oil bottle), pour the rest back in the engine.
THEN hacking off enough dipstick tube to make the dipstick read correctly.
I mean, that's goofy stuff to be doing - and it's tickling me to death to still be here to do it.
I am VERY grateful to folks here like you, Jim, for helping me along with this stuff.

 

[moparedtn]

I ran the 20w50w for 15 min. Drained it out. ($10 a quart). Then another $10 a quart for 10w30w. View attachment 647638
Watch the cold cranking with the 80psi.
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/high-oil-pressure.123351/#post-910578156

You've about got me talked into doing the same, my friend. We'll see what she does with this current configuration.
I watch gauges a lot by nature anyways, so if this nutso pressure persists, I'll get that oil outta there.

 

[beanhead]

You've about got me talked into doing the same, my friend. We'll see what she does with this current configuration.
I watch gauges a lot by nature anyways, so if this nutso pressure persists, I'll get that oil outta there.

I ran that thick stuff for a bit because it's readily available at the nearest auto parts store, has the needed ingredients for the old stuff and is cheap @ $30 for a 5-qt jug. Just like you I didn't like the higher pressure. I went back to a 10-30 (currently royal purple's HPS) and I'm more comfortable with the pressures now plus it gets everywhere faster and easier without compromising any protection.

 

[69B7RR]

Going back through your posts, the problem surfaced upon hard acceleration & descending/stopping on a significant downgrade. No significant leaks & doesn’t burn oil. You seem like a guy that takes care of his stuff & wouldn’t be running it low on oil, whether it’s a 4 or 5 qt pan. The possibility of having a high volume pump with low capacity pan was previously mentioned. I’m nowhere near any kind of expert on this stuff, but could it be related to your pickup. You said your 440 is an early 70’s. The 699 pan is used to convert a 440 into a A-body to provide for suspension clearance issues. As previously mentioned my 402 pan does not have the recessed area as the 699 in your photos. With the different pan configurations is a different pickup required to seat at the proper level in the sump.....Jim

Ed, I appreciate the kind words, but thanks is not necessary. I’ve enjoyed talking with you on this and other treads......Jim

 

[Garys1969RR]

I had a pan from a 72 400, (699)? and a pan from a 77 440. The 400 pan was clearly larger capacity. So cleaned and measured both of them. The 440 pan took 4 qts of water to fill it to the bottom of the windage tray I laid on there. The 699 pan held 5 quarts, and it was still below the windage tray. It took almost 6 quarts to fill it up, while sitting on level ground. So I ran it with 6 quarts total, 5 pan 1 in the filter, and never had a problem. Lots of low 12 second passes on that 451. No loss of pressure, no foaming.

 

[moparedtn]

I had a pan from a 72 400, (699)? and a pan from a 77 440. The 400 pan was clearly larger capacity. So cleaned and measured both of them. The 440 pan took 4 qts of water to fill it to the bottom of the windage tray I laid on there. The 699 pan held 5 quarts, and it was still below the windage tray. It took almost 6 quarts to fill it up, while sitting on level ground. So I ran it with 6 quarts total, 5 pan 1 in the filter, and never had a problem. Lots of low 12 second passes on that 451. No loss of pressure, no foaming.

According to 440 Source, there were at least (3) different pans used on '72 400 engines and still others from that point onward. Yep, all three had different part numbers from the '77 440 pans (three of those also), so I don't doubt what you're saying at all. I'm betting the pan off the '72 wasn't the 699 pan (c-body) though, more probably the 3671693 (b-body) or 3671856 (b-body HP w/4bbl) since they have more capacity.

 

[moparedtn]

Yeah, I gotta get this oil out of that engine. WAY too much pressure on the gauge!
Damn, guess I can use this oil in the tractor or something.... all my other vehicles are on a strict synthetic diet.

 

[Cranky]

Ok, I managed to put the genie back in the bottle - well, 1 quart of it anyways.

I had bought a new drain pan container thingy just for the occasion so as to minimize contamination,
so I pulled the plug (front of car elevated to aid drainage) and let it drain until it was a very slow drip.
I did not disturb the filter.
Once I got all it had to offer, I chucked up an empty quart container from the trash and funneled up to it.
Filled that (gee, the oil isn't nearly as pretty as it was when it was put in!), then headed to the fill on the
engine valve cover. The rest went in the car, pretty near every drop.
I let the car down off the jack, bounced on the front a few times to settle it down, let it sit for 5 minutes for
all the oil to get to the pan, then pulled the dipstick.
The oil now comes up to the last "D" in "ADD".

Ok, in addition to all my other questions, I need to ask someone a favor here:
Pull your dipstick and measure it from the little flange seat that stops it in the tube up top down to the very tip
at the other end, please?
I think we're about to find something out here.

Don't have anymore wedge cars either but mine always took 5 quarts and showed to the full line and yes, I'm talking about stock sticks and pans. Glad you got it right!

I'm still jealous BTW.

I can't believe I forgot I had all those old manuals in the shop. A friggin Chiltons (ugh!) saves the day.
The one I really miss having was my old MOTOR manual from the 60's. That one was awesome.
Somebody borrowed it years ago and...

Got a couple of Chiltons but still have several old Motors manuals....like them better than the Chiltons but sometimes they have info that the Motors do not.

 

[moparedtn]

Conclusion:
Went and fetched the 10W30 Valvoline VR1 today and slapped 5 quarts of that in there after thoroughly draining
the engine of the damn near new 20W50 (that hurt, right in the wallet!).
Fired her up and let her get fairly warm.
When cold, the oil pressure gauge continued to bounce around 80 psi.
After she had a little heat in her, it settled down at idle to around 60 psi.
I can live with that, especially with brand new oil and zero miles on it.
We'll see how she does going down to the local cruise-in this evening.
So far, so good.

 

[biomedtechguy]

Yeah, I gotta get this oil out of that engine. WAY too much pressure on the gauge!
Damn, guess I can use this oil in the tractor or something.... all my other vehicles are on a strict synthetic diet.

In the heat and humidity of the deep South Louisiana swamps, I run Valvoline VR1 20/50 in my 71 440 in my V-code 70 Roadrunner. Typically I get around 30 psi at hot idle on the factory guage and 60 or so at speed. During the 3 weeks of winter, I drop down to VR1 10/40. Usually after the long week of LOTS of driving for Crusin the Coast I do my "winter" oil and filter change.
I'll take the 20/50 VR1 off your hands if you are interested.

 

[Fran Blacker]

In the heat and humidity of the deep South Louisiana swamps, I run Valvoline VR1 20/50 in my 71 440 in my V-code 70 Roadrunner. Typically I get around 30 psi at hot idle on the factory guage and 60 or so at speed. During the 3 weeks of winter, I drop down to VR1 10/40. Usually after the long week of LOTS of driving for Crusin the Coast I do my "winter" oil and filter change.
I'll take the 20/50 VR1 off your hands if you are interested.

Ya 3 weeks of winter, Rub It In.

 

[khryslerkid]

Conclusion:
Went and fetched the 10W30 Valvoline VR1 today and slapped 5 quarts of that in there after thoroughly draining
the engine of the damn near new 20W50 (that hurt, right in the wallet!).
Fired her up and let her get fairly warm.
When cold, the oil pressure gauge continued to bounce around 80 psi.
After she had a little heat in her, it settled down at idle to around 60 psi.
I can live with that, especially with brand new oil and zero miles on it.
We'll see how she does going down to the local cruise-in this evening.
So far, so good.

Hey Ed, have you been following this thread? You're not the only one. See the last several post...
https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/mopa...ng-i-should-be-getting-more-oil.145152/page-6

 

[moparedtn]

In the heat and humidity of the deep South Louisiana swamps, I run Valvoline VR1 20/50 in my 71 440 in my V-code 70 Roadrunner. Typically I get around 30 psi at hot idle on the factory guage and 60 or so at speed. During the 3 weeks of winter, I drop down to VR1 10/40. Usually after the long week of LOTS of driving for Crusin the Coast I do my "winter" oil and filter change.
I'll take the 20/50 VR1 off your hands if you are interested.

I'm afraid it's already been returned to NAPA in exchange for the 10W30 - except for the used oil, of course.
I figure I'll use it in the tractor or some such since it doesn't even have 50 miles on it.

We had the GTX out yesterday in some seriously humid, hot conditions. Car cooked us like steamed shrimp as usual, but the 10W30
did fine. At stone cold, the gauge bounces around 80psi still but as it warms up, it settles down towards 60psi when cruising and around
35psi when idling hot.
Gauge probably isn't that accurate, but that's good enough for me. The engine sure seemed to like the oil more, that's for sure.

Now if I could only get my fancy "new" valve covers to stop leaking....

 

[moparedtn]

Ya 3 weeks of winter, Rub It In.

Oh well, at least you're not dodging the occasional hurricane and mosquitos that are so big they file flight plans with the FAA...

 

[moparedtn]

Hey Ed, have you been following this thread? You're not the only one. See the last several post...

https://www.forbbodiesonly.com/moparforum/threads/im-thinking-i-should-be-getting-more-oil.145152/page-6​

​

No, sure haven't, but I would have if the stinkin' search engine on this site had led me.... eh, hush Ed.
I was listening intently the whole drive yesterday (about 40 miles total), especially to the valvetrain, waiting to hear any of​

the little ticking the stock rockers will do on these 440's sometimes. I didn't hear anything, got that nice sewing machine sound​

of happy lubricated machinery more like.
Engine temp pushed 190F a couple times stuck at lights but went back down to 180F once underway.
Once the oil had a chance to get hot, the pressure gauge reflected it immediately and THAT anxiety kicked in, but after a few miles of
intense gauge watching, I relaxed and felt assured all was well.
Seems like 10W30 is in the ballpark. We'll see if any tweaking needs done on either side of the "W" in rides to come. ​

 

[biomedtechguy]

Oh well, at least you're not dodging the occasional hurricane and mosquitos that are so big they file flight plans with the FAA...

Not to mention the tree roaches...I don't have a problem with them getting inside much, which is a good thing because my wife would kill herself trying to run from one. They are so big you can hear their footsteps, they ride Harley-Davidsons, smoke cigars and wear leather jackets. I've seen mice put a saddle on them and ride them like horses....

 

[moparedtn]

Not to mention the tree roaches...I don't have a problem with them getting inside much, which is a good thing because my wife would kill herself trying to run from one. They are so big you can hear their footsteps, they ride Harley-Davidsons, smoke cigars and wear leather jackets. I've seen mice put a saddle on them and ride them like horses....